Seller increases asking price after 10 months when they have caused the delay in exchange!

BV88

JReacher1 said:

rexmedorum said:

JReacher1 said:

If you ignore the assumptions made by lots of posters on here then what has happened in reality appears to be:-

1) The OP's offer was accepted on the house 10 months
2) The sellers have offered and accepted on three house in the last 10 months
3) All three houses have had survey issues raised before exchange which has led to the sellers reducing their offer
4) The sales have fallen through on all three houses due to the seller of these houses rejecting the offers.
5) Market conditions mean the sellers now think the house is worth more than it was 10 months ago so have now rejected the original offer.

I don't think saying the sellers are time wasters is fair. 

They are very likely finding out that when they look for houses now the prices have gone up so they themselves need to increase the price of their own house.

it depends how minor the minor issues they were trying to get money off for really are, but surely if it's happened 3 times hey're either really unlucky, have unrealistic expectations or are looking for an excuse not to have to move.

Yes difficult to judge either way without knowing what the reasons are.  Its costing them money though each time they pull out so I assume they are valid reasons.

If spending £450k + on a house then you do need to be sure!

JReacher1 said:

If you ignore the assumptions made by lots of posters on here then what has happened in reality appears to be:-

1) The OP's offer was accepted on the house 10 months
2) The sellers have offered and accepted on three house in the last 10 months
3) All three houses have had survey issues raised before exchange which has led to the sellers reducing their offer
4) The sales have fallen through on all three houses due to the seller of these houses rejecting the offers.
5) Market conditions mean the sellers now think the house is worth more than it was 10 months ago so have now rejected the original offer.

I don't think saying the sellers are time wasters is fair. 

They are very likely finding out that when they look for houses now the prices have gone up so they themselves need to increase the price of their own house.

You are right on points 1 & 2.

Here is the story we were given for each failed purchase:

1. Asbestos in the garage, vendor wouldn’t reduce price so our buyer pulled out .

2. This was actually the closest we got, we had exchange date set for September last year. Survey and all
legal
paperwork done on their purchase. Their conveyancer happy with all conditions. However our buyer was not happy that there was a shared road for which they were partly responsible for the upkeep/maintenance. They flat out withdrew on this basis. Really this was the signal that this won’t be happening and they will always find a reason not to sell. 

3. They were buying somewhere from someone that was moving into a new build some
time this month I believe. Just prior to Christmas they pulled out without giving us a reason other than it wasn’t right for them. Then in early Jan we get a call that they think they acted in haste and are buying house 3. They wanted to exchange this month (Jan) to accommodate their seller. The EA even asked us to go into our solicitors to sign the contracts before we went back to the US so we are ready for exchange. Which we did. We walked past the property and through the window we could see boxes packed as if in anticipation of a move. 

We were called around 12th Jan to say they had gone back for another viewing and decided again to pull out of house 3. At this point the estate agent sat them down with their family and said if you really want to move close to them you need to either go to rented or move in with your children. The children decided apparently that they couldn’t take the stress of two moves so it was a no. 

Who knows what happened to their poor vendor on house 3, they were in then out then in again then out again! They must have had to find a new buyer in double quick time… 

As I say if we had been in the U.K. we would have left the deal long ago. It has become an almost comical story among  our friends and family. This being the latest twist in the story.

It is funny on some levels but has had a big impact on us. We exchanged in October 2020 on our house without any expectations to work abroad.

Perhaps I am sharing too much information but our first son was born in October 2019. He spent the first weeks of his life in neonatal intensive care. Then between December 2019 and July 2020 he underwent 5 complex surgeries. Myself and my wife basically lived in a chair at his beside. When COVID came around we couldn’t even be at his beside together, one in one out. Ronald McDonald housing was closed also when COVID hit.

It tested us beyond anything we could have imagined and we came out the other side with our son healthy and the relationship between the three of us stronger than ever. 

My wife is finding it very hard not having a ‘home’ where we live near our family. We are fortunate that the company covers our living costs but we are in a rented apartment and it’s harder to create that feeling of ‘nesting’. 

Our buyers or EA don’t know any of what we went through and we would never play a sympathy card as there is always someone worse off. 

However throughout this whole Process all
we have heard from the sellers and their kids is about how stressful they are finding the whole buying and selling process. Us, the EA, the conveyancers all
all tip-toeing around them because the are so stressed. 

They have messed around us, the estate agents (both here and where they are buying), the solicitors and the 3 sellers. 

I think it’s more than fair to call them time wasters that have not stopped to consider the impact to anyone but themselves. 

Flugelhorn

crikey @BV88 I think if I was you after all that I would be having a paddy on the estate agents floor, about time you had some people understanding what you had been through. 
Sounds like the EA has tried really hard - the excuse for (2) was pathetic as the road was always there as for (3) well who knows what goes on in people's minds but that is time wasting.

SuseOrm

All I would say in their defence is that I think everyone at the moment is struggling to empathise beyond their own circumstances that something has been repeatedly demonstrated within my own family.  

Completely understand your wife’s position she has been through so much she deserves a beautiful home as do you and your son and I hope that you’re able to secure something really nice for the three of you.  

JReacher1

I think 1 and 2 are both valid reasons but for 2 they should have identified this issue a lot earlier.  For 3 it does sound ridiculous.

yksi

I see the idea behind vetting sellers but I don't think it's practical. Really we have to take people on face value.

What we can do is think about what their actions are actually telling us, and pay attention to that, and decide whether it's still worthwhile hanging on. I had an idiot of a seller (let's just call them disconnected, disinterested and ignorant of a huge amount) but I hung on through their delays because I knew it'd be worthwhile if I did. Not everyone has the same tolerance or circumstances to do that.

GDB2222

BV88 said:

GDB2222 said:

lookstraightahead said:

JReacher1 said:

lookstraightahead said:

JReacher1 said:

It’s annoying but house prices have risen in the last ten months by around 10% so something that was valued at £464k in April 2021 is probably worth closely to £500k now. So I can sort of see why they want more money. 

Look at it this way, if the housing market had crashes in the last 10 months I assume you would want to renegotiate now and offer less. I think you need to treat this purely as a financial business transaction and take the emotion out of it. 

I would be tempted to get HSBC to value it again and see if they now think it’s worth more than £464k

Don't agree with this I think it would be valued at less if anything.

And I wouldn't buy from them either , because they're likely to wait another ten months.

so from a financial transaction perspective, they're a waste of time money and effort. From a moral perspective, they're not someone I would now choose to buy from (just wouldn't rest easy with me).

Why would this house be the one house that loses value in the last 10 months? That goes against what is seen in the current housing market. 

Not seen by me. Not seen by lots of people in fact. We don't have the last ten months up to date data as it's always behind. 

Can you imagine every vendor doing this - making people wait ten months to increase the price. Anyway, op seems very level headed.

Nobody made the OP wait. He chose to buy from someone who was not yet in a position to proceed. 

When people make offers, the agents vet them and make sure that they are in a position to proceed. Buyers need to do the same thing with their sellers, or suffer the consequences. 

How, dare I ask, do you propose to vet sellers ability to proceed? Should I ask to
interview them, perhaps get their consent for a lie detector test? Vendors can say whatever they like about how motivated they are to sell, they can say they will go to rented, live with family etc. there is no way to verify that and no obligation for them to do so.

In fact the only reliable method of assessing motivation to sell with such little access to information is do they have a pulse or not! Maybe I should specify that with the EA in my new search. It’s easy with hindsight but how an earth was I know they would

mess me about for 10 months? It would be a very small pool of potential properties available to me if I limited my search to only those without an onward purchase.  

Granted after the first time they pulled out of their purchase that was the signal to act on. If we had been in the U.K. and able to view properties we would have moved on. We stayed with it because we were the other side of the Atlantic and not thrilled about making offers on properties we had not seen in person. Unlike our vendors we don’t want to waste peoples time.

Most comments on this thread have had differing opinions but on the whole very helpful and surprisingly insightful to the situation (or funny!), until now… remind me never to go for a drink with you, I couldn’t suffer the consequences… 

I always managed to find out what position the sellers were in when I bought. These are not unreasonable questions for BOTH parties to ask each other, and a seller who gets past their initial surprise realises that this means I am a serious buyer.

It seems to have worked for me, as I have never been in your unenviable position. 

BV88

GDB2222 said:

BV88 said:

GDB2222 said:

lookstraightahead said:

JReacher1 said:

lookstraightahead said:

JReacher1 said:

It’s annoying but house prices have risen in the last ten months by around 10% so something that was valued at £464k in April 2021 is probably worth closely to £500k now. So I can sort of see why they want more money. 

Look at it this way, if the housing market had crashes in the last 10 months I assume you would want to renegotiate now and offer less. I think you need to treat this purely as a financial business transaction and take the emotion out of it. 

I would be tempted to get HSBC to value it again and see if they now think it’s worth more than £464k

Don't agree with this I think it would be valued at less if anything.

And I wouldn't buy from them either , because they're likely to wait another ten months.

so from a financial transaction perspective, they're a waste of time money and effort. From a moral perspective, they're not someone I would now choose to buy from (just wouldn't rest easy with me).

Why would this house be the one house that loses value in the last 10 months? That goes against what is seen in the current housing market. 

Not seen by me. Not seen by lots of people in fact. We don't have the last ten months up to date data as it's always behind. 

Can you imagine every vendor doing this - making people wait ten months to increase the price. Anyway, op seems very level headed.

Nobody made the OP wait. He chose to buy from someone who was not yet in a position to proceed. 

When people make offers, the agents vet them and make sure that they are in a position to proceed. Buyers need to do the same thing with their sellers, or suffer the consequences. 

How, dare I ask, do you propose to vet sellers ability to proceed? Should I ask to
interview them, perhaps get their consent for a lie detector test? Vendors can say whatever they like about how motivated they are to sell, they can say they will go to rented, live with family etc. there is no way to verify that and no obligation for them to do so.

In fact the only reliable method of assessing motivation to sell with such little access to information is do they have a pulse or not! Maybe I should specify that with the EA in my new search. It’s easy with hindsight but how an earth was I know they would

mess me about for 10 months? It would be a very small pool of potential properties available to me if I limited my search to only those without an onward purchase.  

Granted after the first time they pulled out of their purchase that was the signal to act on. If we had been in the U.K. and able to view properties we would have moved on. We stayed with it because we were the other side of the Atlantic and not thrilled about making offers on properties we had not seen in person. Unlike our vendors we don’t want to waste peoples time.

Most comments on this thread have had differing opinions but on the whole very helpful and surprisingly insightful to the situation (or funny!), until now… remind me never to go for a drink with you, I couldn’t suffer the consequences… 

I always managed to find out what position the sellers were in when I bought. These are not unreasonable questions for BOTH parties to ask each other, and a seller who gets past their initial surprise realises that this means I am a serious buyer.

It seems to have worked for me, as I have never been in your unenviable position. 

You don't think I asked what situation the sellers were in? Of course I did, it is usually the first thing I ask the EA at a viewing. I got told 'They are looking to sell because they want to live near their children and grandchildren, that they are keen as they have put it off for over a year due to COVID'. 

Ok, seems reasonable, onto the viewing...

I am still puzzled how think you I had 'chosen to buy from someone who is not yet in a position to proceed'. That is only evident with the benefit of hindsight. 

Flugelhorn

BV88 said:

GDB2222 said:

BV88 said:

GDB2222 said:

lookstraightahead said:

JReacher1 said:

lookstraightahead said:

JReacher1 said:

It’s annoying but house prices have risen in the last ten months by around 10% so something that was valued at £464k in April 2021 is probably worth closely to £500k now. So I can sort of see why they want more money. 

Look at it this way, if the housing market had crashes in the last 10 months I assume you would want to renegotiate now and offer less. I think you need to treat this purely as a financial business transaction and take the emotion out of it. 

I would be tempted to get HSBC to value it again and see if they now think it’s worth more than £464k

Don't agree with this I think it would be valued at less if anything.

And I wouldn't buy from them either , because they're likely to wait another ten months.

so from a financial transaction perspective, they're a waste of time money and effort. From a moral perspective, they're not someone I would now choose to buy from (just wouldn't rest easy with me).

Why would this house be the one house that loses value in the last 10 months? That goes against what is seen in the current housing market. 

Not seen by me. Not seen by lots of people in fact. We don't have the last ten months up to date data as it's always behind. 

Can you imagine every vendor doing this - making people wait ten months to increase the price. Anyway, op seems very level headed.

Nobody made the OP wait. He chose to buy from someone who was not yet in a position to proceed. 

When people make offers, the agents vet them and make sure that they are in a position to proceed. Buyers need to do the same thing with their sellers, or suffer the consequences. 

How, dare I ask, do you propose to vet sellers ability to proceed? Should I ask to
interview them, perhaps get their consent for a lie detector test? Vendors can say whatever they like about how motivated they are to sell, they can say they will go to rented, live with family etc. there is no way to verify that and no obligation for them to do so.

In fact the only reliable method of assessing motivation to sell with such little access to information is do they have a pulse or not! Maybe I should specify that with the EA in my new search. It’s easy with hindsight but how an earth was I know they would

mess me about for 10 months? It would be a very small pool of potential properties available to me if I limited my search to only those without an onward purchase.  

Granted after the first time they pulled out of their purchase that was the signal to act on. If we had been in the U.K. and able to view properties we would have moved on. We stayed with it because we were the other side of the Atlantic and not thrilled about making offers on properties we had not seen in person. Unlike our vendors we don’t want to waste peoples time.

Most comments on this thread have had differing opinions but on the whole very helpful and surprisingly insightful to the situation (or funny!), until now… remind me never to go for a drink with you, I couldn’t suffer the consequences… 

I always managed to find out what position the sellers were in when I bought. These are not unreasonable questions for BOTH parties to ask each other, and a seller who gets past their initial surprise realises that this means I am a serious buyer.

It seems to have worked for me, as I have never been in your unenviable position. 

You don't think I asked what situation the sellers were in? Of course I did, it is usually the first thing I ask the EA at a viewing. I got told 'They are looking to sell because they want to live near their children and grandchildren, that they are keen as they have put it off for over a year due to COVID'. 

Ok, seems reasonable, onto the viewing...

I am still puzzled how think you I had 'chosen to buy from someone who is not yet in a position to proceed'. That is only evident with the benefit of hindsight. 

In the current market nearly everyone is buying from someone who hasn't yet sealed the deal on the next property, we bought a house and I don't think it was ever clear what the vendor was doing - the EA certainly didn't know and the story kept changing - the one thing that was apparent was that she needed the money so the sale was definitely going to go ahead

GDB2222

BV88 said:

GDB2222 said:

BV88 said:

GDB2222 said:

lookstraightahead said:

JReacher1 said:

lookstraightahead said:

JReacher1 said:

It’s annoying but house prices have risen in the last ten months by around 10% so something that was valued at £464k in April 2021 is probably worth closely to £500k now. So I can sort of see why they want more money. 

Look at it this way, if the housing market had crashes in the last 10 months I assume you would want to renegotiate now and offer less. I think you need to treat this purely as a financial business transaction and take the emotion out of it. 

I would be tempted to get HSBC to value it again and see if they now think it’s worth more than £464k

Don't agree with this I think it would be valued at less if anything.

And I wouldn't buy from them either , because they're likely to wait another ten months.

so from a financial transaction perspective, they're a waste of time money and effort. From a moral perspective, they're not someone I would now choose to buy from (just wouldn't rest easy with me).

Why would this house be the one house that loses value in the last 10 months? That goes against what is seen in the current housing market. 

Not seen by me. Not seen by lots of people in fact. We don't have the last ten months up to date data as it's always behind. 

Can you imagine every vendor doing this - making people wait ten months to increase the price. Anyway, op seems very level headed.

Nobody made the OP wait. He chose to buy from someone who was not yet in a position to proceed. 

When people make offers, the agents vet them and make sure that they are in a position to proceed. Buyers need to do the same thing with their sellers, or suffer the consequences. 

How, dare I ask, do you propose to vet sellers ability to proceed? Should I ask to
interview them, perhaps get their consent for a lie detector test? Vendors can say whatever they like about how motivated they are to sell, they can say they will go to rented, live with family etc. there is no way to verify that and no obligation for them to do so.

In fact the only reliable method of assessing motivation to sell with such little access to information is do they have a pulse or not! Maybe I should specify that with the EA in my new search. It’s easy with hindsight but how an earth was I know they would

mess me about for 10 months? It would be a very small pool of potential properties available to me if I limited my search to only those without an onward purchase.  

Granted after the first time they pulled out of their purchase that was the signal to act on. If we had been in the U.K. and able to view properties we would have moved on. We stayed with it because we were the other side of the Atlantic and not thrilled about making offers on properties we had not seen in person. Unlike our vendors we don’t want to waste peoples time.

Most comments on this thread have had differing opinions but on the whole very helpful and surprisingly insightful to the situation (or funny!), until now… remind me never to go for a drink with you, I couldn’t suffer the consequences… 

I always managed to find out what position the sellers were in when I bought. These are not unreasonable questions for BOTH parties to ask each other, and a seller who gets past their initial surprise realises that this means I am a serious buyer.

It seems to have worked for me, as I have never been in your unenviable position. 

You don't think I asked what situation the sellers were in? Of course I did, it is usually the first thing I ask the EA at a viewing. I got told 'They are looking to sell because they want to live near their children and grandchildren, that they are keen as they have put it off for over a year due to COVID'. 

Ok, seems reasonable, onto the viewing...

I am still puzzled how think you I had 'chosen to buy from someone who is not yet in a position to proceed'. That is only evident with the benefit of hindsight. 

"they want to live near their children and grandchildren" - that would have put me off, as it sounds like they haven't yet found anywhere that they are keen to offer on.

"they have put it off for over a year due to COVID" - translates as haven't even started looking yet.

Plus, they are looking in a different area of the country, so they may not be very quick finding somewhere, as it involves lots of travel for viewings.

Did you ask exactly where they are looking, then compare house prices in the two areas? Did you ask what they are looking for? Are they going to be able to afford a decent property in the new area? 

Most people are so polite, and take the chance that something like this will happen. 

Of course, if you had asked hard questions, that could have put these particular sellers off. 

billy2shots

BV88 said:

   but at the advice of the Estate Agent we decided to just put up the extra cash ourselves as they thought it would spook the vendor out of the sale.

And that's where it all started to go wrong. 

This is from the opening post and can't believe more people haven't picked up on it. 


It is not 'the' estate agent it is 'their' estate agent. They work for them not you. 

You didn't bat an eyelid and agreed to Pay £475k for £464k property.
I'm going to hazard a guess that you have also told 'the' estate agents of your plans to develop the place. 

You may have sell asked a town crier to ring a bell and call out that you have cash in the bank waiting to be spent.

Now either the EA is confident of securing more easy money from you or the vendors have picked up on this. Their is blood in the water and the sharks are circling..


That's gone now but learn for next time. 


In the current situation I would write this property off completely and look for somewhere else. I would however tell the EA that my £475k offer stands but will be lowed by £1k each week from this point until the vendors accept that or formally reject it. 

Look for your new home, you never know this one might come back to you. Whatever you do though don't bank on it, emotionally draw a line under it and if it happens then you potentially get it cheaper.