Weird problem with wifi & Windows 10 Laptop

tsb

I have been given a old windows 10 laptop that the owner had 'given up' on as it is so slow.  It is an Acer ES1-531 N0350 cpu 4gb ram 900Gb hard drive with nearly 800Gb free. It is a laptop that you have to switch on and walk away from for at least 15 minutes for it update the anti-virus etc as trying to operate it at the same time is pointless.  No key presses or clicks have any response.

I can't believe just how slow and frustrating this laptop is but what is strange is that when its booted up and connected to my home wifi router, any other device also connected to the router simply won't work properly.  The router starts constantly dropping connection to the internet and when it is connected all other devices run slow and seem to struggle to load web pages.  If another device is trying to play a you tube video for instance, the wheel just circles on the page.  I'm on a fibre broadband, not the fastest speed, but can have two laptops connected without issue normally.  It is definitely this laptop that is causing some issue.  As soon as it is shut down, the internet speed and signal is back to normal.

What can be the issue here please? 

kobe84

It's probably full of rubbish and the standard mechanical hard drive doesn't help. Install an SSD and do a clean install of Windows 10.

400ixl

Do a factory reset first to wipe out all of the software & config that could be causing issues. Could be a case of its full of malware.

[Deleted User]

tsb said:

What can be the issue here please? 

The legacy wifi adaptor on the laptop - it looks ancient and is 802.11b/g/n. It is probably causing your router to fall back to legacy modes to maintain compatibility which in turn slows down your whole wifi network.

I'd suggest all sorts of things to improve it but given the specification and the description of how it performs it isn't worth the time and effort, just send it off for recycling.

Se1Lad

You can replace the hdd with a solid state drive.  Instructions to do this here:
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Acer+Aspire+E1-531-2438+Hard+Drive+Replacement/122245

They are £16 on Amazon: Ortial OC-150 128GB SATA III CORE 2.5 Inch Internal Solid State Drive SSD - OC-150-128
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07ZRJMR13/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_J9TER0E2MB376VW0K42M

you then need to make a windows 10 usb installer from this site - check which version is installed on the laptop first - probably windows 10 home, and choose the 64 bit version:

https://www.microsoft.com/eb-gb/software-download/windows10

After install go to windows update to check for updates, once installed reboot, check for updates again, repeat this until windows says that no more updates are available.
I would also install the latest bios for the laptop from here:
https://www.acer.com/ac/en/GB/content/support-product/6061?b=1

Even if you don’t want to keep it then it’s worth doing to sell on eBay .. that model laptop in good condition sells for £70 to £130!

tsb

Thanks for the replies.

It might be worth giving the reset a try first and see what the difference may be.  If the wifi adapter is rubbish then it really won't help with the issues. Didn't know a laptop could effect the rest of the home wifi 'network' so I've learnt something.

Se1Lad

tsb said:

Thanks for the replies.

Didn't know a laptop could effect the rest of the home wifi 'network' so I've learnt something.

I’ve never known an old wifi card impact s modern router, they are designed to connect to multiple devices, operating at multiple speeds, using both old and new standards.

It’s more likely the laptop has malware/virus and it’s using up all the bandwidth on your router.

A reset might fix this, but as this laptop may have originally come with windows 8.1 and was then upgraded to windows 10, if any issues existed prior to the update then the reset won’t help.

Safest option is to do a clean install of windows 10.

tsb

Se1Lad said:

tsb said:

Thanks for the replies.

Didn't know a laptop could effect the rest of the home wifi 'network' so I've learnt something.

I’ve never known an old wifi card impact s modern router, they are designed to connect to multiple devices, operating at multiple speeds, using both old and new standards.

It’s more likely the laptop has malware/virus and it’s using up all the bandwidth on your router.

A reset might fix this, but as this laptop may have originally come with windows 8.1 and was then upgraded to windows 10, if any issues existed prior to the update then the reset won’t help.

Safest option is to do a clean install of windows 10.

I was just commenting on what tallmansix had said about the wifi adapter.

If it was just down to malware or a virus, would the usual malware and virus remover programs not remove them?  I have already scanned the hard drive with Malwarebytes program and done a virus scan.

ETA:
I have just checked underneath and you are right it has an old sticker that I can just about make out saying windows 8.1

Se1Lad

It could also be a driver issue, especially if the laptop was previously upgraded from Windows 8.1 to 10.  Best option is to wipe and do a clean install of windows.  You need a USB stick which is 8GB or larger, and then of you download the following tool from Microsoft:

https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=691209

Run this on one of your other PCs which is working properly, and choose to 'Create Installation Media'  Choose Windows 10 64 bit, and choose the USB stick as the location you want to create the media to.

Once created, shut down the laptop you want to wipe, plug in the USB stick and restart, keep tapping the F12 key as soon as you have pressed the power button until the boot menu appears and then choose to boot from the USB drive

(Note: if you can't boot from USB, follow the help article here:  Why can't I get the F12 Boot Menu to work on my notebook or netbook? - Acer Community )

Once you have booted from the USB follow the prompts:
-Choose English/UK Keyboard
-Choose Install Now
-If prompted for a product key choose skip
-If prompted for an OS Version choose Windows 10 Home (I presume this is what is currently installed - check this before you start the install)
-Choose Custom - Install Windows Only
-When asked where to install windows, you need to delete all the existing partitions, highlight each in turn and choose delete, you should be finally left with one item called Drive 0 Unallocated Space
-Choose next and the install should complete

After install go to windows update to check for updates, once installed reboot, check for updates again, repeat this until windows says that no more updates are available.
I would also install the latest bios for the laptop from here:
https://www.acer.com/ac/en/GB/content/support-product/6061?b=1

[Deleted User]

Se1Lad said:

tsb said:

Thanks for the replies.

Didn't know a laptop could effect the rest of the home wifi 'network' so I've learnt something.

I’ve never known an old wifi card impact s modern router, they are designed to connect to multiple devices, operating at multiple speeds, using both old and new standards.

It’s more likely the laptop has malware/virus and it’s using up all the bandwidth on your router.

Fair enough to call me that out, I got lazy when I saw the N3050 CPU - it is a truly awful CPU and I personally wouldn't waste any time or money on it. It is ranked 1323 of 1339 of the CPU's benchmarked over the last decade, no amount of upgrades will bring life back into that, it is was ready for the knackers yard a long time ago. 

As for the wifi impact, slower devices can slow the overall bandwidth down even though each device is still connecting at its own speed. It is all to do with airtime sharing - only one device can be transmitting or receiving at a time so the faster devices have to wait for slower devices to complete before they can transmit.

For example with some simplified numbers, I have one device running at 10mbps and another at 100mbps on the wifi. Both devices each want to transmit (or receive) 100mb of data. The 10mbps device will take 10 seconds of airtime and the 100mbps device just 1 second of airtime. 

You can't make the faster device wait 10 seconds before it can transmit, and neither can you make the slower device wait 1 second, so instead the 200mb of data is sliced up into small but equal chunks sent alternatively by each device.

So over an 11 second period, both devices can send a maximum of 100mb of data each, there is no more airtime available, so even though the faster 100mbps device is transmitting at 100mbps, it only gets a 1 second slice of time spread out over of the 11 seconds making the effective rate the same as the 10mbps device that uses the other 10 out of the 11 seconds of airtime. So both devices are transmitting at 100mb/11sec = 9.1mbps average over those 11 seconds.

By default, most wifi access points apply bandwidth fairness as per the above example, so all devices get the same amount of data over a period of time.

Some have a feature called airtime fairness which can be enabled which would do things differently. In the above example, both devices would get equal airtime rather than equal data. So crudely lets say half a second for each device per second. After the first 2 seconds the faster device will get a 1 second slice and receive all of the 100mb of data and the slower device will have got 1 second and received just 10mb. This way the faster devices benefit at the expense of the slower devices, but both were effectively still running at half their maximum speed during that 2 second period.

Note that the above example applies even where the wifi access point is say capable of talking at 500mbps but the devices are 10 and 100mbps - it doesn't free up any more airtime to the devices to have that extra capability because the devices use all the possible airtime available.

Se1Lad

Deleted_User said:

Se1Lad said:

tsb said:

Thanks for the replies.

Didn't know a laptop could effect the rest of the home wifi 'network' so I've learnt something.

I’ve never known an old wifi card impact s modern router, they are designed to connect to multiple devices, operating at multiple speeds, using both old and new standards.

It’s more likely the laptop has malware/virus and it’s using up all the bandwidth on your router.

Fair enough to call me that out, I got lazy when I saw the N3050 CPU - it is a truly awful CPU and I personally wouldn't waste any time or money on it. It is ranked 1323 of 1339 of the CPU's benchmarked over the last decade, no amount of upgrades will bring life back into that, it is was ready for the knackers yard a long time ago. 

As for the wifi impact, slower devices can slow the overall bandwidth down even though each device is still connecting at its own speed. It is all to do with airtime sharing - only one device can be transmitting or receiving at a time so the faster devices have to wait for slower devices to complete before they can transmit.

For example with some simplified numbers, I have one device running at 10mbps and another at 100mbps on the wifi. Both devices each want to transmit (or receive) 100mb of data. The 10mbps device will take 10 seconds of airtime and the 100mbps device just 1 second of airtime. 

You can't make the faster device wait 10 seconds before it can transmit, and neither can you make the slower device wait 1 second, so instead the 200mb of data is sliced up into small but equal chunks sent alternatively by each device.

So over an 11 second period, both devices can send a maximum of 100mb of data each, there is no more airtime available, so even though the faster 100mbps device is transmitting at 100mbps, it only gets a 1 second slice of time spread out over of the 11 seconds making the effective rate the same as the 10mbps device that uses the other 10 out of the 11 seconds of airtime. So both devices are transmitting at 100mb/11sec = 9.1mbps average over those 11 seconds.

By default, most wifi access points apply bandwidth fairness as per the above example, so all devices get the same amount of data over a period of time.

Some have a feature called airtime fairness which can be enabled which would do things differently. In the above example, both devices would get equal airtime rather than equal data. So crudely lets say half a second for each device per second. After the first 2 seconds the faster device will get a 1 second slice and receive all of the 100mb of data and the slower device will have got 1 second and received just 10mb. This way the faster devices benefit at the expense of the slower devices, but both were effectively still running at half their maximum speed during that 2 second period.

Note that the above example applies even where the wifi access point is say capable of talking at 500mbps but the devices are 10 and 100mbps - it doesn't free up any more airtime to the devices to have that extra capability because the devices use all the possible airtime available.

The laptop in question comes with an 802.11n wifi card, I've rebuilt much older laptops with 802.11g cards and never experienced any problems with my router.  I agree the processor isn't great, but would be fine for basic web browsing or word processing etc.  I've rebuilt much older laptops like Lenovo X61's, and they run fine for basic tasks, and are surprisingly quick if you put an SSD in them.   I was quite surprised that this model Acer sells on ebay for over £70 though!   Used Acer Aspire ES15 ES1-531-C0XK500GB HDD Intel Processor N3050 4GB Laptop | eBay