Minor Car Accident : Who was at fault?

Marvel1

Car A had indicates to move back in left, then they should have looked in their mirrors and blindspot.

aogra

Marvel1 said:

Car A had indicates to move back in left, then they should have looked in their mirrors and blindspot.

Of course, after every incident there will always be shoulds and shouldnts. However, based on the evidence, if you were the case handler and had to assign fault what would you be more comfortable with (keeping in mind that you could be challenged, potentially at court); full fault to Car A, full fault to Car B or some type of 50/50 fault between both?

photome

aogra said:

Merlin139 said:

You are to blame when you chose to go around the Nissan that was turning right. You should have slowed and waited for it to turn and stayed in the right lane. The Volvo moved into the left lane as you were more in the right lane then in the left. You cut him up. Without the Volvo slamming on the brakes you would have had damage to your car. 

Its all very clear in the Rear camera footage. 

What it also shows that you wanted to stay ahead of the Volvo at all cost. Why did you not stay in the left lane that was clear? I bet it was because you had seen 100 meters in front was a parked car so you wanted to hedge your bets. The Volvo obviously had the room to get pretty much level with you until you closed the door.

I agree that it was not the best move by myself, in hindsight I would have looked more carefully and done things different but it is what it is - I am certainly not trying to put blame solely on Car B, I am merely just trying to explore the situation from the eyes of the law. In my mind I was certainly not trying to change lane, and in my mind I had not changed lane, I was trying to see ahead of the parked car - in that split second I was unsure if that car was actually parked (it was) or stopped in traffic. I agree not the smartest move, I was certainly not in a hurry or trying to be aggressive in any way. But regardless of any of my actions, the question remains if I had exited the left lane or not, is having half my car in the left lane enough to classify it as me having left the lane? when I moved completely back to the left lane, in my mind I was still in the lane, I had never left it. And for Car B, should he have squeezed through, literally leaving a few centimetres between both cars? from the advantage of his viewpoint, did he create a risky situation by advancing?

But it wasnt a split second it was about 9 seconds. I think you were in the wrong , although as i said previously, would probably go 50/50.  you must have realised he was there otherwise why did you indicate left if as you said you hadnt exited the left lane.

he could have waited behind you but in that 9 seconds he assumed you were moving in to the right lane 

Car_54

photome said:

aogra said:

Merlin139 said:

You are to blame when you chose to go around the Nissan that was turning right. You should have slowed and waited for it to turn and stayed in the right lane. The Volvo moved into the left lane as you were more in the right lane then in the left. You cut him up. Without the Volvo slamming on the brakes you would have had damage to your car. 

Its all very clear in the Rear camera footage. 

What it also shows that you wanted to stay ahead of the Volvo at all cost. Why did you not stay in the left lane that was clear? I bet it was because you had seen 100 meters in front was a parked car so you wanted to hedge your bets. The Volvo obviously had the room to get pretty much level with you until you closed the door.

I agree that it was not the best move by myself, in hindsight I would have looked more carefully and done things different but it is what it is - I am certainly not trying to put blame solely on Car B, I am merely just trying to explore the situation from the eyes of the law. In my mind I was certainly not trying to change lane, and in my mind I had not changed lane, I was trying to see ahead of the parked car - in that split second I was unsure if that car was actually parked (it was) or stopped in traffic. I agree not the smartest move, I was certainly not in a hurry or trying to be aggressive in any way. But regardless of any of my actions, the question remains if I had exited the left lane or not, is having half my car in the left lane enough to classify it as me having left the lane? when I moved completely back to the left lane, in my mind I was still in the lane, I had never left it. And for Car B, should he have squeezed through, literally leaving a few centimetres between both cars? from the advantage of his viewpoint, did he create a risky situation by advancing?

But it wasnt a split second it was about 9 seconds. I think you were in the wrong , although as i said previously, would probably go 50/50.  you must have realised he was there otherwise why did you indicate left if as you said you hadnt exited the left lane.

he could have waited behind you but in that 9 seconds he assumed you were moving in to the right lane 

Did he also assume that Rule 163 (prohibiting overtaking on the left in most circumstances) didn't apply to him?

force_ten

both drivers were impatient and driver A was moving to the outside or the right hand lane the Nissan driver starts to indicate to turn right so driver A nipped back to the left lane so they did not have to stop behind the turning car not realising that driver B has seen a gap and has started to undertake

there was bad driving by both parties 

looked at the rear facing footage again and car A defiantly cut back into the left hand lane to undertake the Nissan that was turning right and cut in front of car B that was also trying to pass car A on the left 

force_ten

Belenus said:

aogra said:

https://youtu.be/vE3EiwW9sxg

Are those flashing lights on Car B normal?

it is the frame rate that the camera is recording at and it makes the cars LED lights look like they are flashing 

When the frequency of the camera's frame rate per second (FPS) and the LEDs don't quite match, the flicker becomes visible on the camera 

photome

Car_54 said:

photome said:

aogra said:

Merlin139 said:

You are to blame when you chose to go around the Nissan that was turning right. You should have slowed and waited for it to turn and stayed in the right lane. The Volvo moved into the left lane as you were more in the right lane then in the left. You cut him up. Without the Volvo slamming on the brakes you would have had damage to your car. 

Its all very clear in the Rear camera footage. 

What it also shows that you wanted to stay ahead of the Volvo at all cost. Why did you not stay in the left lane that was clear? I bet it was because you had seen 100 meters in front was a parked car so you wanted to hedge your bets. The Volvo obviously had the room to get pretty much level with you until you closed the door.

I agree that it was not the best move by myself, in hindsight I would have looked more carefully and done things different but it is what it is - I am certainly not trying to put blame solely on Car B, I am merely just trying to explore the situation from the eyes of the law. In my mind I was certainly not trying to change lane, and in my mind I had not changed lane, I was trying to see ahead of the parked car - in that split second I was unsure if that car was actually parked (it was) or stopped in traffic. I agree not the smartest move, I was certainly not in a hurry or trying to be aggressive in any way. But regardless of any of my actions, the question remains if I had exited the left lane or not, is having half my car in the left lane enough to classify it as me having left the lane? when I moved completely back to the left lane, in my mind I was still in the lane, I had never left it. And for Car B, should he have squeezed through, literally leaving a few centimetres between both cars? from the advantage of his viewpoint, did he create a risky situation by advancing?

But it wasnt a split second it was about 9 seconds. I think you were in the wrong , although as i said previously, would probably go 50/50.  you must have realised he was there otherwise why did you indicate left if as you said you hadnt exited the left lane.

he could have waited behind you but in that 9 seconds he assumed you were moving in to the right lane 

Did he also assume that Rule 163 (prohibiting overtaking on the left in most circumstances) didn't apply to him?

You mean just like the camera car did as there was queuing traffic in the right lane, which the camera car was about to join, but then decided to overtake on the left. Legally of course

9 seconds is a long time to be straddling the lane marking trying to decide what to do.

yes car B was impatient 

aogra

Thanks all, really appreciate all your responses, sentiment in the thread appears to suggest that the fairest outcome would be a 50/50 split, there was questionable driving from both cars that led to the incident in question.

brianposter

People are responsible for their own driving. If you cause an accident by flashing your lights to let someone through the norm is that the legal responsibility lies with those who suffered the accident, not with whoever was the originating problem.

Same applies here, car B has failed to allow sufficient space to car A.

Car_54

brianposter said:

People are responsible for their own driving. If you cause an accident by flashing your lights to let someone through the norm is that the legal responsibility lies with those who suffered the accident, not with whoever was the originating problem.

Same applies here, car B has failed to allow sufficient space to car A.

Is there an obligation to allow space for drivers to overtake on the left?