Is it a bad idea to buy a new non electric car right now?

Grumpy_chap

blackstar said:

Well just about to buy a petrol car. Getting worried as hearing lots of negative things about non electric cars ie how gov want us all to go electric and will try and find ways to make it difficult to run a non electric car ie tolls, banned from city centers, higher taxes and that if you want to sell it in a few years it won't be worth much as everyone will be getting forced to by an electric.

What are people's thoughts? Buying a brand new Dacia sandero right now in light of the above?

Last week you said you'd actually bought the Sandero:

blackstar said:

Well thank you all very much for all your help, especially my friend Grumpy who has been very ungrumpy. I have put a deposit down on a Dacia 1.0 TCe 90. I think my wife is very happy as she needed a new car. It was a huge help from people here who helped make it happen, which it might otherwise not have happened or would have been in a more difficult position. But has been prevented by you good people like Grumpy. 
I have been busy sorting all this car stuff out so apologize for the late response. 
I now am looking into getting everything else sorted out. 
I called the Dacia customer service line but the person I spoke to had no idea if or when there was a cut off point for taking out the Warranty and Service plan. She said to open up a account on the website and it will give me all the options available to me but that was it.
If you were me now, just buying a brand new Essential Sandero, what (and when) would you do in terms of a service plan and extended warranty?
I think the gap insurance was about £325 4 years with the dealership. I have heard of GAP123 and they are £125 cheaper for 4 years. 
Combined Return to Invoice Gap Insurance and Combined Vehicle Replacement Insurance?
Which is better and how? Cant seem to see any difference?

In terms of keeping it maintained, other than its yearly maintenance, is there anything else you would do, ie check oil every month etc?

Have any of you had repairs on warranty and was it a no fuss?

If you keep putting deposits down on cars but then not completing the purchase, that will end up expensive.

Chris_English

Depending on usage it’s arguable that it’s foolish not to buy a petrol car right now.

Electric cars are moving ahead in leaps and bounds at the moment as designers get their heads around the fact that a traditional shape and layout based on an internal combustion engine needn’t be the starting point for electric cars so what will be available in a few years is likely to be far better.

If what you want is a city car, then maybe electric cars are there, but if it’s for frequent long journeys then I think petrol is often still better.

If what you want is a sports car then petrol is still far ahead.

tightauldgit

My feeling on it is that if govt really wants people to switch to electric in the nearish future then something is going to have to change significantly and simply banning the sale of new petrol cars probably won't do much except get people to switch to used petrol cars unless the cost of buying a new electric comes down significantly (either through volume and economies of scale or government stepping in to subsidise it heavily) or there is a completely new business model that makes it affordable. 

I think the second hand market on EVs is still questionable due to the lifetime of batteries so that problem will have to be addressed one way or another. 

So my sense is if you can afford an electric and want one right now then go ahead, but if you are only buying one because of worries about the future then it's likely that buying an electric for your next car rather than this one might well be a better deal. 

Just my 2c though, I'm a bit out of the loop on the car industry nowadays but I just don't see how they make the mass transition to electric with the current business models.

Username03725

Realistically the end of ICE engine cars will be a multi-pronged reasoning. Not just the govt banning the sales of new ones, but higher taxes & charges on usage, increasingly higher taxes on fuel and at some point the infrastructure will fall away.

Supermarkets already have a monopoly on fuel sales; it's quite possible that as ICE car numbers drop and fuel sales fall away it'll be less and less economically justifiable to keep fuel sales going at the same level that we're used to, so it's reasonable to posit that at some point fuel outlet numbers will fall and be on a par with where electric charge points are now, but their numbers will be falling not rising.

Petriix

It's worth running the numbers. We bought a new MG5 at the end of 2020 for around £23k. It's worked out cost neutral vs buying a £12k second hand diesel Golf estate. That tips in favour of the MG when you consider long term residual values.

11k miles has cost just £120 in electricity vs ~ £1500 in diesel. That's paid every penny of the additional mortgage payments on the money we borrowed to buy it.

Chris_English

Username03725 said:

Realistically the end of ICE engine cars will be a multi-pronged reasoning. Not just the govt banning the sales of new ones, but higher taxes & charges on usage, increasingly higher taxes on fuel and at some point the infrastructure will fall away.

Supermarkets already have a monopoly on fuel sales; it's quite possible that as ICE car numbers drop and fuel sales fall away it'll be less and less economically justifiable to keep fuel sales going at the same level that we're used to, so it's reasonable to posit that at some point fuel outlet numbers will fall and be on a par with where electric charge points are now, but their numbers will be falling not rising.

How do supermarkets have a monopoly on fuel sales? Where I live we’ve petrol stations such as BP, Esso or Texaco where you are also able to buy petrol.

Grumpy_chap

Petriix said:

It's worth running the numbers. We bought a new MG5 at the end of 2020 for around £23k. It's worked out cost neutral vs buying a £12k second hand diesel Golf estate. That tips in favour of the MG when you consider long term residual values.

11k miles has cost just £120 in electricity vs ~ £1500 in diesel. That's paid every penny of the additional mortgage payments on the money we borrowed to buy it.

Your life-cycle maths may work - it probably does - but it won't be an option for the OP who only last week said they'd put a deposit down on a Rio and then declined for finance so changed tack to the Sandero.  Given that, it's unlikely they can finance the MG5 £23k:

blackstar said:

I am getting worried now as the Rio I completed an order pack with Arnold Clark on 31/12/2021 and since the PCP fell though I can not afford to pay for it in one go so thats why I am looking at other cars.

But I am worried I am tied into the Rio?

Or if I can cancel it and how?

But I am worried I am tied into the Rio? Only signed the order form via email, never seen car, nop deposit paid , never been to the dealership, all over email and phone, car arrived at dealership ready to collect from Monday this week. 

The contract says :

"2 (b) if we fail to deliver the vehicle within 30 days of the estimated delivery date"

"4 (a) you may cancel at anytime prior to inspecting the vehicle and we will refund any customer contribution or reservation fee back to you within 7 days. (b) except in the event of cancelation in terms of clauses 2(b) or 4(a), this agreement may only be canceled or unwound with our written consent. In the event that this agreement is unwound you must repay any cash back to us. Where the settlement figure excluded the part exchange value, you must pay us the difference (b) except in the event of cancelation in terms of 2(b) or 4(a) this agreement may only be canceled or unwound with our written consent. In the event that this agreement is canceled or unwound you must pay any cash back to us. Where the settlement figure exceeds the part exchange value, you must pay us the difference". 

Or if I can cancel it and how?

Here is a copy of the order form which I have blanked out personal details and also the order number?

Cant seem to get it uploaded...will try another way.

https://ibb.co/Qp4sRZh

TELLIT01

I think buying electric now is a far worse idea than buying a petrol/diesel powered car.  Equivalent electric cars are still thousands of pounds dearer and battery technology will improve in the next 5 years or so.  Battery replacement once out of warranty are scarily high too.  Battery warranty is rarely more than 8 years and replacement cost can be more than the remaining value of the vehicle, but how many ICE fail after 8 years? Very few I would suggest.

Access to charging points in many parts of the country is also a major issue, along with the time taken to recharge.

Once electric become the predominant type is an absolute certainty that some form of charging for their use on the roads will be introduced.  The Government can't afford to lose the billions they receive currently in fuel duties.

Thrugelmir

Username03725 said:

 but higher taxes & charges on usage, increasingly higher taxes on fuel and at some point the infrastructure will fall away.

The lost tax take for the Exchequer is going to have to be recovered. EV vehicles are going to be taxed in some form. The infrastructure for the growing number of EV's has to be funded as well. There's plenty of pot holes along the road ahead. 

Thrugelmir

Petriix said:

It's worth running the numbers. We bought a new MG5 at the end of 2020 for around £23k. It's worked out cost neutral vs buying a £12k second hand diesel Golf estate. That tips in favour of the MG when you consider long term residual values.

11k miles has cost just £120 in electricity vs ~ £1500 in diesel. That's paid every penny of the additional mortgage payments on the money we borrowed to buy it.

The obvious concern is as the vehicles age. How much is it going to cost to replace the electronic gadgetry in EV's. All very well having bells and whistles. Replacement cost is unlikely to be cheap. Whereas ICE cars in the basic form are extremely durable these days.