Red Light offence

ontheroad1970

mr_stripey said:

ontheroad1970 said:

DB1904 said:

TooManyPoints said:

How can they "upgrade" and endorse is the licence isn't surrendered?

They can't. But they have his DL number and stranger things have happened.

I doubt it with this !!!!!! up. They may have checked him at the time of the offence but I doubt the officer recorded it. 

We would, I am sure, be interested what experience you have with road traffic law and police procedures.  Have you been a traffic policeman before?

are you in that profession @ontheroad1970? 

As it happens, no.  I wondered whether DB was speaking from professional experience or merely a layman, such as I.  Not an impertinent question, I believe.

mr_stripey

ontheroad1970 said:

mr_stripey said:

ontheroad1970 said:

DB1904 said:

TooManyPoints said:

How can they "upgrade" and endorse is the licence isn't surrendered?

They can't. But they have his DL number and stranger things have happened.

I doubt it with this !!!!!! up. They may have checked him at the time of the offence but I doubt the officer recorded it. 

We would, I am sure, be interested what experience you have with road traffic law and police procedures.  Have you been a traffic policeman before?

are you in that profession @ontheroad1970? 

As it happens, no.  I wondered whether DB was speaking from professional experience or merely a layman, such as I.  Not an impertinent question, I believe.

no, not at all. Was genuinely interested if you were - might have had a few follow up questions that's all

Car_54

DB1904 said:

Car_54 said:

sevenhills said:

mr_stripey said:

The officer said to me that they don't decide what happens, they write the ticket and then someone will look at it and look at my previous driving record (30 years, no points ever) and I may get either a) a warning b) a fine c) points or d) offer of a awareness course.

He probably just gave out a more lenient ticket to avoid any possible court case. An officer appearing in court is overkill for a traffic offence, at the moment.

As the officer explained, the decision wasn't his to make.

Even if the offence went to court, in most cases the officer's presence isn't necessary: either the offender pleads guilty, or the officer's written statement is accepted.

If the defendant were to plead not guilty then the defendant wouldn't be accepting the written statement. Therefore the officer would need to attend court. 

No, it’s perfectly possible to accept the statement but plead NG. For example, a defence might be based on defective signage.

DB1904

Car_54 said:

DB1904 said:

Car_54 said:

sevenhills said:

mr_stripey said:

The officer said to me that they don't decide what happens, they write the ticket and then someone will look at it and look at my previous driving record (30 years, no points ever) and I may get either a) a warning b) a fine c) points or d) offer of a awareness course.

He probably just gave out a more lenient ticket to avoid any possible court case. An officer appearing in court is overkill for a traffic offence, at the moment.

As the officer explained, the decision wasn't his to make.

Even if the offence went to court, in most cases the officer's presence isn't necessary: either the offender pleads guilty, or the officer's written statement is accepted.

If the defendant were to plead not guilty then the defendant wouldn't be accepting the written statement. Therefore the officer would need to attend court. 

No, it’s perfectly possible to accept the statement but plead NG. For example, a defence might be based on defective signage.

Let's keep it to the red light offence, part of the prosecution evidence given by the reporting officer would be the lights were in full working order and the stop line clearly visible. So the officer would be required.

If they were to be a not guilty for defective signage then that would be returned for the reporting officer to address. So yet again they'd be required in court. 

If the officer couldn't give any evidence to the signage the it would undermine the prosecution or assist the defence so the defendant wold want them there to assist in their defence.   

mr_stripey

As an aside, I was talking to a guy at work about this and he was surprised that I had admitted what I did (to the policeman).

I went through the red, I saw the police car to my left and he followed me. It was obvious to him (and me) that I'd committed the offence and so when he asked me if I knew why he'd stopped me I assumed (and still do) the correct response is to say "yes". I presume that running a red light and not even knowing you did so (as would be implied by answering "no") would be even "worse" than owning up?

I should add of course, I don't make a habit of driving like this. I did wrong, I got caught and therefore felt it the only correct thing to do to admit as much to the officers.

scrappy_returns

mr_stripey said:

As an aside, I was talking to a guy at work about this and he was surprised that I had admitted what I did (to the policeman).

I went through the red, I saw the police car to my left and he followed me. It was obvious to him (and me) that I'd committed the offence and so when he asked me if I knew why he'd stopped me I assumed (and still do) the correct response is to say "yes". I presume that running a red light and not even knowing you did so (as would be implied by answering "no") would be even "worse" than owning up?

I should add of course, I don't make a habit of driving like this. I did wrong, I got caught and therefore felt it the only correct thing to do to admit as much to the officers.

The copper asking if you know why you are stopped is an opptunity to incriminate yourself. Always answer no, just is case he would say "oh, I didn't notice you jumped the light but you do have a marker on your car for being a drug smuggler/international arms dealer/head of ISIS, I'll do you for that as well." Remember you have the right to remain silent, there's nothing wrong with saying you don't know what they stopped you for and they will soon tell you.

ontheroad1970

It's also an opportunity to pass the attitude test.  The OP was honest about what happened, and perhaps the error wasn't accidental as a result.  

mr_stripey

scrappy_returns said:

mr_stripey said:

As an aside, I was talking to a guy at work about this and he was surprised that I had admitted what I did (to the policeman).

I went through the red, I saw the police car to my left and he followed me. It was obvious to him (and me) that I'd committed the offence and so when he asked me if I knew why he'd stopped me I assumed (and still do) the correct response is to say "yes". I presume that running a red light and not even knowing you did so (as would be implied by answering "no") would be even "worse" than owning up?

I should add of course, I don't make a habit of driving like this. I did wrong, I got caught and therefore felt it the only correct thing to do to admit as much to the officers.

The copper asking if you know why you are stopped is an opptunity to incriminate yourself. Always answer no, just is case he would say "oh, I didn't notice you jumped the light but you do have a marker on your car for being a drug smuggler/international arms dealer/head of ISIS, I'll do you for that as well." Remember you have the right to remain silent, there's nothing wrong with saying you don't know what they stopped you for and they will soon tell you.

I can see what you're saying but it was pretty obvious that he'd seen me so I did the decent thing and owned up. 

If I'd said "No" then aside from irritating the police officers no doubt, I'm effectively saying "I just recklessly drove through a red light but didn't even realise I'd done so"

And as @ontheroad1970 said, I think it entirely plausible that the admission and apology to the officers might have gone some way towards the more lenient outcome. 

I had my ten year old son in the car and he was a bit scared but the officers were very friendly to him as well and put him at ease (he then spent the next ten minutes whilst they checked my details texting his mum/ my ex wife that "daddy's been pulled over by the cops")

Anyway lesson learned!

scrappy_returns

mr_stripey said:

scrappy_returns said:

mr_stripey said:

As an aside, I was talking to a guy at work about this and he was surprised that I had admitted what I did (to the policeman).

I went through the red, I saw the police car to my left and he followed me. It was obvious to him (and me) that I'd committed the offence and so when he asked me if I knew why he'd stopped me I assumed (and still do) the correct response is to say "yes". I presume that running a red light and not even knowing you did so (as would be implied by answering "no") would be even "worse" than owning up?

I should add of course, I don't make a habit of driving like this. I did wrong, I got caught and therefore felt it the only correct thing to do to admit as much to the officers.

The copper asking if you know why you are stopped is an opptunity to incriminate yourself. Always answer no, just is case he would say "oh, I didn't notice you jumped the light but you do have a marker on your car for being a drug smuggler/international arms dealer/head of ISIS, I'll do you for that as well." Remember you have the right to remain silent, there's nothing wrong with saying you don't know what they stopped you for and they will soon tell you.

I can see what you're saying but it was pretty obvious that he'd seen me so I did the decent thing and owned up. 

If I'd said "No" then aside from irritating the police officers no doubt, I'm effectively saying "I just recklessly drove through a red light but didn't even realise I'd done so"

And as @ontheroad1970 said, I think it entirely plausible that the admission and apology to the officers might have gone some way towards the more lenient outcome. 

I had my ten year old son in the car and he was a bit scared but the officers were very friendly to him as well and put him at ease (he then spent the next ten minutes whilst they checked my details texting his mum/ my ex wife that "daddy's been pulled over by the cops")

Anyway lesson learned!

You can pass the attitude test and still not know why they are stopping you, they are used to it, happens all the time, and there will be plenty genuinely unaware of what they have done.

TooManyPoints

There's no need to make a big thing of this. My suggestion was simply a precaution. I don't imagine for one second that the OP will have any trouble with this. But, as posts here and in other places attest, strange things sometimes happen. For the sake of keeping a sheet of paper in the sideboard it's belt & braces.