Red Light offence

DB1904

TooManyPoints said:

How can they "upgrade" and endorse is the licence isn't surrendered?

They can't. But they have his DL number and stranger things have happened.

I doubt it with this !!!!!! up. They may have checked him at the time of the offence but I doubt the officer recorded it. 

Car_54

DB1904 said:

TooManyPoints said:

Keep the paperwork which shows the offence details and check your driving licence record online in two or three weeks' time just to ensure it has not been "upgraded." It shouldn't be and you'd have a strong argument if it was, but best to check.

How can they "upgrade" and endorse is the licence isn't surrendered?

Same way they can issue a £50 penalty for the wrong offence ...

DB1904

Car_54 said:

DB1904 said:

TooManyPoints said:

Keep the paperwork which shows the offence details and check your driving licence record online in two or three weeks' time just to ensure it has not been "upgraded." It shouldn't be and you'd have a strong argument if it was, but best to check.

How can they "upgrade" and endorse is the licence isn't surrendered?

Same way they can issue a £50 penalty for the wrong offence ...

Difficult without a licence being surrendered and the OP paying £100.

mr_stripey

DB1904 said:

TooManyPoints said:

How can they "upgrade" and endorse is the licence isn't surrendered?

They can't. But they have his DL number and stranger things have happened.

I doubt it with this !!!!!! up. They may have checked him at the time of the offence but I doubt the officer recorded it. 

they checked everything (MOT, Tax, Insurance, Driving licence). My driving license number appears on the document they emailed to me, so I guess they have everything they need

mr_stripey

Car_54 said:

mr_stripey said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

mr_stripey said:

DB1904 said:

mr_stripey said:

Was coming back from Leicester the other night after the football and in my eagerness to get home I made an unwise decision to "go" as the lights were on Amber and the light was definitely red by the time I crossed the line. Unfortunately for me I was spotted by a police patrol car.

He stopped me a bit further down the road, he asked me if I knew why he had stopped me and I said "yes". Checked the car details, driving licence etc - all check out ok. No argument from me - the policeman treated me fairly and even joked "maybe you'll get three points even if Leicester didn't"

Wrote me a ticket and today I received a £50 fine through the post - no mention of any points. I've paid the fine and that would appear to be that.

Question is - does this count as an endorsement - for insurance renewals etc?

Red lights are endorsable three points and £100.

A £50 ticket is for a non endorsable offence so what is the offence wording on it?

It says:

CONDITIONAL OFFER OF FIXED PENALTY
ALLEGED OFFENCE: Motor vehicle fail to comply with a non endorsable traffic sign - detected by means other than ACD

Comply with Conditional offer by paying £50.00 without the need for court proceedings

It appears that the police officer may have made an 'administrative error' and issued the wrong sort of ticket.  They generally have two ticket books, and it's easy to take a penalty notice from the wrong one.  Given that the police are busy, it would be unwise to waste their time by querying or complaining about the error; instead you should do your public duty and pay it.  That would be the end of the matter, as no penalty points will be applied.  

I've already paid it. I wasn't even thinking of querying it. 

The officer said to me that they don't decide what happens, they write the ticket and then someone will look at it and look at my previous driving record (30 years, no points ever) and I may get either a) a warning b) a fine c) points or d) offer of a awareness course.

Anyhow, a £50 fine is at the lower end of what I was expecting, so I am happy to accept that as my punishment.

The officer was wrong. The options normally are 1) offer of fixed penalty (£100 and 3 points), 2) offer of an awareness course, or 3) court action. I've never heard of anyone receiving a warning through that process.

If you already have 9 points or more you won't be offered an FP, and you won't be offered a course if you've done the same course in the previous three years. AFAIK your previous record has no effect otherwise.

The email they sent at the time says

Leicestershire Police
Traffic Offence Report

It also states I admitted to the offence ( I did) and states:

"You have been given this notice because the issuing officer believes there is sufficient evidence to prosecute you for the offence, however, you may be eligible for a National Driver Offender Retraining Course depending on the nature of the offence, your previous record of offending (if any) and any previous course you have attended or are waiting to attend.

sevenhills

mr_stripey said:

The officer said to me that they don't decide what happens, they write the ticket and then someone will look at it and look at my previous driving record (30 years, no points ever) and I may get either a) a warning b) a fine c) points or d) offer of a awareness course.

He probably just gave out a more lenient ticket to avoid any possible court case. An officer appearing in court is overkill for a traffic offence, at the moment.

Car_54

sevenhills said:

mr_stripey said:

The officer said to me that they don't decide what happens, they write the ticket and then someone will look at it and look at my previous driving record (30 years, no points ever) and I may get either a) a warning b) a fine c) points or d) offer of a awareness course.

He probably just gave out a more lenient ticket to avoid any possible court case. An officer appearing in court is overkill for a traffic offence, at the moment.

As the officer explained, the decision wasn't his to make.

Even if the offence went to court, in most cases the officer's presence isn't necessary: either the offender pleads guilty, or the officer's written statement is accepted.

ontheroad1970

DB1904 said:

TooManyPoints said:

How can they "upgrade" and endorse is the licence isn't surrendered?

They can't. But they have his DL number and stranger things have happened.

I doubt it with this !!!!!! up. They may have checked him at the time of the offence but I doubt the officer recorded it. 

We would, I am sure, be interested what experience you have with road traffic law and police procedures.  Have you been a traffic policeman before?

DB1904

Car_54 said:

sevenhills said:

mr_stripey said:

The officer said to me that they don't decide what happens, they write the ticket and then someone will look at it and look at my previous driving record (30 years, no points ever) and I may get either a) a warning b) a fine c) points or d) offer of a awareness course.

He probably just gave out a more lenient ticket to avoid any possible court case. An officer appearing in court is overkill for a traffic offence, at the moment.

As the officer explained, the decision wasn't his to make.

Even if the offence went to court, in most cases the officer's presence isn't necessary: either the offender pleads guilty, or the officer's written statement is accepted.

If the defendant were to plead not guilty then the defendant wouldn't be accepting the written statement. Therefore the officer would need to attend court. 

mr_stripey

ontheroad1970 said:

DB1904 said:

TooManyPoints said:

How can they "upgrade" and endorse is the licence isn't surrendered?

They can't. But they have his DL number and stranger things have happened.

I doubt it with this !!!!!! up. They may have checked him at the time of the offence but I doubt the officer recorded it. 

We would, I am sure, be interested what experience you have with road traffic law and police procedures.  Have you been a traffic policeman before?

are you in that profession @ontheroad1970?