Help needed with new boiler quotes and types

agylk

Hello

I need advice on which route to take in terms of replacing my boiler. I have two quotes on the table. One by a private company and one with 0800 government scheme. 

Both involve removing of the existing water tank from the airing cupboard. 

The 0800 quote includes an ideal logic c30 boiler and two years warranty. I queried why they want to put a 30 kW boiler in a one-bedroom flat. From what I’ve read, this will result in higher energy bills because the boiler is too large. This is what they said: 

“ They’ve confirmed that the Ideal Logic C30 (30Kw Combi boiler) gives out 24Kw of heating. It will only ever go up to the full 30Kw when you’re running hot water. (Capable of giving 12 litres of hot water per minute). It was also confirmed that even a 24Kw Ideal Logic Combi gives out 24Kw of heating also. So the energy consumption of the 30Kw shouldn’t differ with the exception of running hot water.”

I don’t really understand these things so I don’t know if I should remain concerned that this boiler is too large. 

This quote comes with a basic thermostat. I think Honeywell. 

Another thing is they will do the job between two men in one day. I don’t know if it’s possible to do such a large job in one day and I am concerned that they will not do it properly. The private company, two men also, said they do it over 2 to 3 days. 

0800 quote is just over £2k incl vat.

The reviews for 0800 are mixed. In one place they have great reviews, in other places there are a lot of dissatisfied customers. The private guys have really great reviews and are local. 

So now for the private quote. 

£2.5k plus vat on top so £3 for baxi 800 25kw with hive smart thermostat with ten years warranty. 

They also can do a main eco compact 25kw which they say is the same boiler but with a five year warranty for £2150+ VAT. Is it really the exact same boiler? Is warranty the only difference? because obviously it’s a big price difference. 

Another difference between these guys and 0800 is that 0800 said they may have to take some tiles off in the kitchen because the boiler (due to the new pipe they will run) will be lower. The private guys didn’t seem the need to do that because they never mentioned it. 

So all in all, I have no idea who to go with. Help will be greatly appreciated. 

I’m scared that if I go with the cheaper guys, they will do a worse job and I will have more problems in the long run. 

Le_Kirk

Do you want your hot water cylinder removed and the boiler to be replaced by a combi?

agylk

Yes I do. Very important 

rob7475

Main and Baxi are the same company. The boilers will probably share many components - whether they're exactly the same, I'm not sure.

I'd maybe get another quote or two if you know any more trusted local independants. The quotes you've got aren't far out though depending on where you are in the country. The last install I had done was for a vokera combi, complete new system including 5 rads in a one two bed house. Cost me £2100 about 3 years ago. Boiler came with 10 year guarantee.

agylk

I’ve had other quotes in the past. These two are the ones I’m considering.

tacpot12

Given the ppor reviews, I would not use 0800. The Ideal boiler they have suggested is fine. It will output 30K when heating hot water for the taps, but will output what it needs to for the central heating. The boiler turns itself down (possibly as low as 4.8kW) if your flat does not need the 24kW of heat that the boiler is capable of outputing to the heating system.  But with poor reviews, they are unlikely to do a good job. 

The local firm are not overcharging if their price with VAT is £3K. 

skycatcher

We had a combi gas boiler (WG greenstar 30) with 10 yr warranty installed in spring to replace gravity oil system. It was around £2.5k to include 2 thermostatic showers replacing 2 power showers. They mentioned replacing tiles as they would hide feed pipes to showers inside the cavity walls. Other installers (at similar price) said they would run pipes on the surface - a non starter for us. A team of 4 completed the job in 1 day.

Bendy_House

agylk said:

Hello

I need advice on which route to take in terms of replacing my boiler. I have two quotes on the table. One by a private company and one with 0800 government scheme. 

Both involve removing of the existing water tank from the airing cupboard. 

The 0800 quote includes an ideal logic c30 boiler and two years warranty. I queried why they want to put a 30 kW boiler in a one-bedroom flat. From what I’ve read, this will result in higher energy bills because the boiler is too large. This is what they said: 

“ They’ve confirmed that the Ideal Logic C30 (30Kw Combi boiler) gives out 24Kw of heating. It will only ever go up to the full 30Kw when you’re running hot water. (Capable of giving 12 litres of hot water per minute). It was also confirmed that even a 24Kw Ideal Logic Combi gives out 24Kw of heating also. So the energy consumption of the 30Kw shouldn’t differ with the exception of running hot water.”

I don’t really understand these things so I don’t know if I should remain concerned that this boiler is too large. 

This quote comes with a basic thermostat. I think Honeywell. 

Another thing is they will do the job between two men in one day. I don’t know if it’s possible to do such a large job in one day and I am concerned that they will not do it properly. The private company, two men also, said they do it over 2 to 3 days. 

0800 quote is just over £2k incl vat.

The reviews for 0800 are mixed. In one place they have great reviews, in other places there are a lot of dissatisfied customers. The private guys have really great reviews and are local. 

So now for the private quote. 

£2.5k plus vat on top so £3 for baxi 800 25kw with hive smart thermostat with ten years warranty. 

They also can do a main eco compact 25kw which they say is the same boiler but with a five year warranty for £2150+ VAT. Is it really the exact same boiler? Is warranty the only difference? because obviously it’s a big price difference. 

Another difference between these guys and 0800 is that 0800 said they may have to take some tiles off in the kitchen because the boiler (due to the new pipe they will run) will be lower. The private guys didn’t seem the need to do that because they never mentioned it. 

So all in all, I have no idea who to go with. Help will be greatly appreciated. 

I’m scared that if I go with the cheaper guys, they will do a worse job and I will have more problems in the long run. 

Hi Agy.

To start with, what the first boiler guy said about the boilers being an ok size for a 1-bed flat is largely correct; you choose a combi size based mainly on how much hot water you like delivered. This, in turn, will largely come down to your shower - just how nice a shower do you want? If, instead, you have a bath, I'd say it's even more important as anything under 30kW will be painfully slow to fill.

All modern boilers 'modulate', which means their burners do not just fire up and go off, but they adjust to suit demand - just like a gas hob. The 30kW C30, for example, can go down as low as 7.9kW, and the 25kW Baxi 800 down to 6. For both, when your rads become fully hot and cannae take any mare ho' watta', cap'n, the burner will go fully off until needed again.

So, both will do the job. The 30kW jobbie will give you a very good shower, and the 25kW an adequate one.

The 0800 quote seems cheap, although not worryingly so. The 'private' one seems a tad high to me, tho' not off the scale.

The Baxi 800 will take up to 20% H2, which is nicely high. No idea about the C30 - probably 10%, but I don't know. I also don't know how important these figures will become over the life of your boiler, but it's likely it will have some bearing.

A 10 year warranty is always good, but this will almost certainly require an annual service, probably ~£80 a time? A 2-year warranty is just poor.

There's obviously more to this job than a boiler swap; it'll almost be like starting from new, with very likely a new flue position (unless your existing one goes straight out a wall?), a condensate pipe, and the removal of the old hot tank and associated pipework. That's all easy stuff, tho', so not a biggie.

If things like the quality of the job are important to you - and fair do's that it is - then I suggest you get full clarification of how they propose to handle things like tiles and making good afterwards. Don't assume they'll do this or do that - you want to know.

Oh, and a basic thermostat is also carp; you do want a Prog Stat at the very least, and a Smart/App-controllable one ideally. The Hive is nice, and has the option of Smart/App control although this costs more.

Any more local companies who can quote for this job, perhaps spec'ing a Veissmann, Vaillant or W-B instead? And ask them all the questions while they are there - like what making good will be required afterwards? 

Ectophile

To do the whole lot properly in one day sounds a bit unlikely.  I have known a professional plumber to spend two days swapping an old combi boiler for a new one.  Reorganising all the plumbing to work with a combi is a lot more work than that.

Have they checked that your gas supply is up to the job?  30kW needs a high gas flow, and old pipework designed for a much smaller boiler may not be up to the job.  They might have to replace all the gas pipes back to the meter.

You can get smaller combi boilers than 30kW.  My first one was a weedy 23kW one.  In winter, filling the bath took half an hour, because that was how fast the boiler could heat the water from stone cold.  Combi boilers have to be over-sized when compared to traditional system boilers because they have to heat the hot tap water instantly.

agylk

Thanks everyone for your replies. Yes, I am super worried that the 800 guys want to do it in one day. I just can’t see how. The pipes in the airing cupboard need to be changed whatever that means. Here is more detail on what the private guys said:

Further to our recent visit, we have created this bespoke quotation to replace your current boiler.

To Supply and fit new Baxi 800 25kw combi boiler, located in kitchen with standard, horizontal flue terminating to outside in same location as existing boiler.


Connect Flow and return pipework to existing, Connect hot colds and condense to below. Connect gas pipework to new boiler.


Run condense to internal drain. Remove existing cylinder, tanks and associated redundant pipework. Brick up and make good old flue opening.

We will also include:

• Magnetic filter


• Limescale reducer


• Shock Arrestor


• Insulation


• Hive Smart Thermostat.


• Dose system with inhibitor

The quoted price includes all labour and materials for a Gas engineer and electrician as well as all testing and commissioning.

And here are bits from the 800 guys:

What's Included

Gas Safe credited engineers

Photo ID for all engineers

Any faulty TRV’s or radiators without, will have new one's installed

All installs have a warm chemical flush included

We will replace your current controls if faulty or if they are not present at time of survey

Full system cover for the 2 year – including all system pipework/radiators controls – including 24 hour call out 365 days of the year

All waste materials will be taken away on the day of installation

Labour – 1 x Engineer / 1 Day

Ideal Logic boiler up to 30 KW (any variance to this will be detailed below)

Confirmed Contribution breakdown

What's not included

Basic contribution based on property type

Re-location of boiler

Extra or replacement radiators

Asbestos

Scaffolding

Magnetic Filter

Extra labour

Higher KW of boiler requested or specified by technical surveyor.

Specific makes/models of boiler

Additional parts outside of a standard installation cost’s

Boxing around boiler

Boxing on piping

  First year service                  

Doozergirl

'Extra labour' not included, 'additional parts' not included amongst other things.   0800 is not a quote, it's an estimate... 

The elaborate overuse of apostrophes is also really annoying.