Recording of telephone conversation with permission

melb

we have paid about half of what he was claiming based on the fact that he is charging for an 'out of hours' callout when in fact we first contacted him in the morning and it was his decision that the electrician came at 5.30 to look at the problem and then returned at 7.30 to do the work.  We didn't say we were in any rush to have the work done

MattMattMattUK

melb said:

hi there I am seeing conflicting things online. We rang a company to come to look at and fix an electrical appliance.  We are disputing the overinflated bill.  He says he has proof of us agreeing to his rates as he recorded the telephone call.

We know that his claims are nonsense and look forward to hearing it, but is it legal for a business to record a conversation with an individual without informing them beforehand?  

melb said:

sorry that should be without permission I do not know how to edit my first post

They should inform you the call is recorded but it is not necessarily required, just good practice, they do not need your permission.

MattMattMattUK

melb said:

thanks for the replies.  If the recording exists and he passes it on to a debt collection agency which he is threatening to do even though the invoice was only sent a week ago, presumably that would infringe on GDPR rules?

Passing the debt onto a debt collection agency would be fine, passing the call recording on would also be absolutely fine so long as it was done in compliance with the rules, passing on the call is not specifically a breach of GDPR.

melb

sorry to resurrect my post - i am sure you have all moved on to better things!  We have received an email from the 'debt recovery department' in which they confirm they have listened to the telephone recording.  After doing some research online I am surprised that you say there is no problem in them doing this as I thought permission had to be sought beforehand.  Also my understanding that a business can only record telephone conversations with an individual under certain circumstances, none of which are the case here.

They have further threatened to come and remove the part they have fitted and say they will be within their rights to do this 'as the part is fitted in a charger which is outside the house so they would be able to do this without disturbance to you'.  They say they retain the right to do this as set out in their terms and conditions.  We have never seen these as they are not on the invoice, nor are they on their website.

They will be trespassing will they not if they access our drive without permission?

They also refer to the fact that the fitted part remains their property until it is paid for - surely £144 would cover the cost of a £7 part?  Also having looked online it is my understanding that once fitted, parts automatically become the property of the client irrespective of whether they have been paid for.

Would it be classed as a danger to life should an electrician remove a part which is meant to offer protection from electrocution?

Would the police be interested in a threat to remove property?

Ergates

melb said:

sorry to resurrect my post - i am sure you have all moved on to better things!  We have received an email from the 'debt recovery department' in which they confirm they have listened to the telephone recording.  After doing some research online I am surprised that you say there is no problem in them doing this as I thought permission had to be sought beforehand.  Also my understanding that a business can only record telephone conversations with an individual under certain circumstances, none of which are the case here.

They have further threatened to come and remove the part they have fitted and say they will be within their rights to do this 'as the part is fitted in a charger which is outside the house so they would be able to do this without disturbance to you'.  They say they retain the right to do this as set out in their terms and conditions.  We have never seen these as they are not on the invoice, nor are they on their website.

They will be trespassing will they not if they access our drive without permission?

They also refer to the fact that the fitted part remains their property until it is paid for - surely £144 would cover the cost of a £7 part?  Also having looked online it is my understanding that once fitted, parts automatically become the property of the client irrespective of whether they have been paid for.

Would it be classed as a danger to life should an electrician remove a part which is meant to offer protection from electrocution?

Would the police be interested in a threat to remove property?

You're fixating on the wrong details here.

The legality of the recording are not relevant to whether or not you owe them the money they are claiming.  They say they have a recording of you agreeing to the amount, you need to listen to the recording (if it exists) to determine if this is the case.   If you did agree, then you owe them the money and you should pay.  If you didn't (or there is no
recording) then they don't have a case.  Have you asked for a copy of the recording?

Also, it is legal for a business (or an individual) to record a telephone call, and they are not required to inform you. (They would need to inform you if they intended to supply the recording to a 3rd party - however that has not happened here.)

Here is a link to the relevant piece of legislation: The Telecommunications (Lawful Business Practice) (Interception of Communications) Regulations 2000 (legislation.gov.uk)
It states:

3.—(1) For the purpose of section 1(5)(a) of the Act, conduct is authorised, subject to paragraphs (2) and (3) below, if it consists of interception of a communication, in the course of its transmission by means of a telecommunication system, which is effected by or with the express or implied consent of the system controller for the purpose of—
(a)monitoring or keeping a record of communications—
(i)in order to—
(aa)establish the existence of facts, or
....<snip>
2) Conduct is authorised by paragraph (1) of this regulation only if—
(a)the interception in question is effected solely for the purpose of monitoring or (where appropriate) keeping a record of communications relevant to the system controller’s business;

In this case they are clearly using the recording  (if it exists) to establish the existence of facts (i.e. what was said on the call) and it is directly relevant to their business, ergo it is permitted

sheramber

 We didn't say we were in any rush to have the work done

Would it be classed as a danger to life should an electrician remove a part which is meant to offer protection from electrocution?
 
 I would have thought if it was  .a danger to  then you would want it done  as soon as possible.

Jenni_D

sheramber said:

 We didn't say we were in any rush to have the work done

Would it be classed as a danger to life should an electrician remove a part which is meant to offer protection from electrocution?
 
 I would have thought if it was  .a danger to  then you would want it done  as soon as possible.

I've not read the whole thread but I suspect you are misunderstanding - if they trespass and remove a part which is providing protection then the remainder of the unit may then be electrically unsafe. In that situation the person doing the removal could be liable for any damage or injury caused by their actions.

user1977

melb said:

They also refer to the fact that the fitted part remains their property until it is paid for - surely £144 would cover the cost of a £7 part?  Also having looked online it is my understanding that once fitted, parts automatically become the property of the client irrespective of whether they have been paid for.

Yes - even if they have some sort of retention of title clause in their terms, they're not enforceable in consumer contracts. All they can due is pursue you for the debt (if it's actually due).

Sandtree

melb said:

sorry to resurrect my post - i am sure you have all moved on to better things!  We have received an email from the 'debt recovery department' in which they confirm they have listened to the telephone recording.  After doing some research online I am surprised that you say there is no problem in them doing this as I thought permission had to be sought beforehand.  Also my understanding that a business can only record telephone conversations with an individual under certain circumstances, none of which are the case here.

They have further threatened to come and remove the part they have fitted and say they will be within their rights to do this 'as the part is fitted in a charger which is outside the house so they would be able to do this without disturbance to you'.  They say they retain the right to do this as set out in their terms and conditions.  We have never seen these as they are not on the invoice, nor are they on their website.

They will be trespassing will they not if they access our drive without permission?

They also refer to the fact that the fitted part remains their property until it is paid for - surely £144 would cover the cost of a £7 part?  Also having looked online it is my understanding that once fitted, parts automatically become the property of the client irrespective of whether they have been paid for.

Would it be classed as a danger to life should an electrician remove a part which is meant to offer protection from electrocution?

Would the police be interested in a threat to remove property?

The law recognises just cause/reasonable business interest... if this were not the case you could get a £10,000 loan and ask the bank to delete all records of you under your right to be forgotten in GDPR and therefore they'd be unable to pursue the debt (or even know there was a debt). 

You can challenge their right to record the call, or share it, but its not hard to defend the recording of calls assuming you have good GDPR/DPA compliance in terms of notices, system security etc simply buy stating its required for dealing with customer disputes etc. Businesses dont want to be hamstrung into it being one persons word against another with no way of knowing if their agent or the customer is the one thats lying. 

Trespass is the same, else you could sue every courier that ever attempts to deliver something to you. Trespass in itself will give you a nominal £5 or something its only if they cause damage to your property that you have a material claim. 

If title has transferred or if there is a right to recover the item in the event of non-payment will depend on the terms of the contract. There is certainly no automatic transfer once something is "fitted" otherwise there'd be an easy route to fraud and I'd be getting some £1m scientific lab equipement fitted tomorrow with no intent to pay.

If they did recover their property they'd need to ensure no material damage is done to your property and its left in a safe state. Wont get drawn into if what you have can be removed and be left safe as no idea what it is, what was there before etc however its possible to terminate wires safely and just leave whatever the down stream thing that can electrocute you is unconnected.

Police almost certainly will tell you its a civil matter.

Thrugelmir

melb said:

we have paid about half of what he was claiming based on the fact that he is charging for an 'out of hours' callout when in fact we first contacted him in the morning and it was his decision that the electrician came at 5.30 to look at the problem and then returned at 7.30 to do the work.  We didn't say we were in any rush to have the work done

What's his version of events?