Limited time and Grace Period defence

Umkomaas

A phone number was available for clarifying the situation but there was no public telephone available. I didn't have a mobile.

Why tell us that in your opening post?  

I have rewritten my defense as "no mobile phone reception"

Is that the truth, or just convenient?

what has been called "observation time" and which should carry no time limit.

You might think that, but even the Government's soon to be fully introduced Parking (Code of Practice) Act 2019, aimed at reining in the worst excesses of the private parking sector, doesn't agree with you. 

Coupon-mad

NorfolkNewboy said:

Yes, I agree.
However, I shall appeal stating that the time between arrival and departure was spent entirely on trying to understand the requirements regarding the hourly charge AND trying to arrange to park there: what has been called "observation time" and which should carry no time limit.
It is probably going to represent an expensive "not a day out" for my wife's 70th birthday.

But that means the £60 will be £100.

D_P_Dance

Have you read this?

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2014/03/waiting-for-space-is-not-parking.html

Have you complained to your MP?

fisherjim

To be perfectly frank, honest and blunt about this:

1. The landowner seems quite fair, proud of their little site, and has taken time to investigate and reply in a manner not seen very often.

2. The PPC is an unregulated, self serving, greedy, intransigent muppet, but is doing what the landowner thinks is a job in his interests.

3. By your admission you went here totally unprepared, not enough cash, no mobile phone (later you change your story), you couldn't remember what the signs actually said, (a quick search on the internet and I found them) the signage is really quite clear. You then made up your own assumed rules expecting a "FOC" stay because "I didn't want to stay longer then one hour".

You then change your defence to "no mobile phone reception".

The statement "what has been called observation time and which should carry no time limit" is quite ridiculous if you think about it.

Sorry but I think you are on a looser here in addition to which everything you have posted on here including a photo of you with a mobile phone photographing the pay machine will have been seen by the PPC by now.

Unfortunately you have been caught out by ANPR which is in many cases not fit for purpose, and quite uniquely also by CCTV and you are clutching at straws you are unlikely to win this one sorry but if you go the long haul and they take it to court I think you may well regret it.

NorfolkNewboy

Coupon-mad said:

NorfolkNewboy said:

Yes, I agree.
However, I shall appeal stating that the time between arrival and departure was spent entirely on trying to understand the requirements regarding the hourly charge AND trying to arrange to park there: what has been called "observation time" and which should carry no time limit.
It is probably going to represent an expensive "not a day out" for my wife's 70th birthday.

But that means the £60 will be £100.

No: the charge is paused until they have looked at my response, so long as it is done within the 14 day period. it is possible, albeit unlikely, that the PCN will be cancelled. If not then I can still pay £60.

NorfolkNewboy

Kelvin Reynolds, BPA Director of Corporate Affairs says there is a difference between ‘grace’ periods and ‘observation’ periods in parking and that good practice allows for this.

“An observation period is the time when an enforcement officer should be able to determine what the motorist intends to do once in the car park.  Our guidance specifically says that there must be sufficient time for the motorist to park their car, observe the signs, decide whether they want to comply with the operator’s conditions and either drive away or pay for a ticket,” he explains.

“No time limit is specified.  This is because it might take one person five minutes, but another person 10 minutes depending on various factors, not limited to disability.”

https://www.britishparking.co.uk/News/good-car-parking-practice-includes-grace-periods

Coupon-mad

Yes but it appears that you were not merely trying to pay.  The landowner has all this on CCTV.

That is also a very old article and UKCPM are not BPA AOS, they are IPC.

Umkomaas

The Law of Holes might be something to consider in dealing with this. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_holes

NorfolkNewboy

Coupon-mad said:

Yes bit you both took your coats off and left the site.  And you were not merely trying to pay.  The landowner has all this on CCTV.

That is also a very old article and UKCPM are not BPA AOS, they are IPC.

NO: we put our coats on when we got out of the car and walked to the payment machine. Having failed to understand their signage, we returned to the car to see if we had enough money.
Another car arrived so we went back to the machine to see if they were locals who knew the rules  or could contact the help line. When that didn't work we returned to the car, removed our coats, got in the car and left.
Had we left at the first opportunity we probably wouldn't have got a PCN.

I didn't see a date on the article: thanks.

Jenni_D

If you didn't have a phone with you, who is this - with a phone in their hand? 🙄