Credit Card Collection Agency after death

Kimbooley

Hi all. My mother in law died last week, so my wife has been going through her paperwork and informing all companies etc of her death, sending death certificates, closing accounts etc. 

She was not married, rented a council property, had finance outstanding on her car so she did not own it yet, and had about £1,700 left in her current account. That’s basically all she had left in the world. 

Now, everyone has been brilliant in helping us settle and close accounts, and phone contracts etc. Everyone apart from her credit card company: Vanquis.

My wife called Them to notify them, but they said they couldn’t deal with her despite being executor of the estate, and simply advised her that they would pass us to their firm “Phillips & Cohen” who would be in touch. 

So far we’ve heard nothing. But tonight, having googled some HORRENDOUS details and reviews of their company, I am shocked. They’re nothing more than a debt collection agency who hound anyone they can remotely related to a deceased account holder for payments. 

Now when we called the credit card company we wanted to pay off my mother in law’s debt but we’re basically told to wait to be contacted. I don’t believe they took our address - only a phone number - but don’t Quote me on that. 

From what I’ve read tonight, they can go months without making contact, or even years down the line, they come up with random figures to be paid and send threatening letters. Now I for one know exactly how much was owed by my mother in law as I accessed her online account with her permission by her bedside before she died so we could get an up to date statement to help us sort when she died... 

my question is, the money left in her current account with her bank is being released to my wife any day now. Other than the content of that account, all £1700 of it, there is no estate. We are happy to pay them off - but where do we stand legally with this? 

I know the debt is in her name only and she died intestate with no will and with my wife as her only blood relative (her daughter) so I’m pretty sure legally we don’t have to pay anything but once the bank account is reduced to £0 and closed would that then render the estate as “zero” value or can they THEN chase my wife for payment?

i just want it over with. Let us pay the debt. But at the debt left at the time of her death, not some random number with added bogus charges,
not months down the line, no threats. 

Ugh. Stress. 

Torry_Quine

You absolutely don't have any liability to pay. The funeral has first right to any money and only if there's any after this do creditors get paid. it sounds like there's not any so the debt dies with her 

Kimbooley

Torry_Quine said:

You absolutely don't have any liability to pay. The funeral has first right to any money and only if there's any after this do creditors get paid. it sounds like there's not any so the debt dies with her 

Hi there. We have the funeral costs covered, so the £1700 in her current account she specifically wanted to be given to her partner (not married) after her death, but ive just read that if this debt is to be paid PLUS any benefits that were paid before she died (PIP, disability etc) need to be repaid, then I’m terrified of sending the money to her partner for fear of being left with nothing in which to pay off any remaining debts etc. 

I feel far too young to be dealing with this to be honest. It’s all so stressful at the worst time of your life  

Torry_Quine

Sadly an executor must pay debts as much as possible before giving money to recipients. 

Silvertabby

Torry is right.  In this case (no mortgage/secured debt) funeral fees have first call on the £1700.

Just tell Philips & Cohen that your mother-in-law died insolvent, and that no-one is administering the estate.  You are not obliged to pay off this debt, no matter what P&C tell you.  One of the reasons why credit card interest rates are set at stupid% is to cover insolvent estate debts.

My sympathies.

Silvertabby

Kimbooley said:

Torry_Quine said:

You absolutely don't have any liability to pay. The funeral has first right to any money and only if there's any after this do creditors get paid. it sounds like there's not any so the debt dies with her 

Hi there. We have the funeral costs covered, so the £1700 in her current account she specifically wanted to be given to her partner (not married) after her death, but ive just read that if this debt is to be paid PLUS any benefits that were paid before she died (PIP, disability etc) need to be repaid, then I’m terrified of sending the money to her partner for fear of being left with nothing in which to pay off any remaining debts etc. 

I feel far too young to be dealing with this to be honest. It’s all so stressful at the worst time of your life  

When you say that you have the funeral costs covered, do you mean that your mother-in-law had a pre-paid plan, or that you have paid for the funeral yourselves?  If the former, then that could complicate things, as the £1700 will then be up for grabs for paying debts.  Re-payment of benefits first, then the credit card.

If you have paid for the funeral yourselves, then really the best way round this would be to use the £1700 to re-imburse yourselves then you can safely tell P&C to do one as the estate was insolvent after payment (or part payment) of the funeral fees.

Kimbooley

Silvertabby said:

Kimbooley said:

Torry_Quine said:

You absolutely don't have any liability to pay. The funeral has first right to any money and only if there's any after this do creditors get paid. it sounds like there's not any so the debt dies with her 

Hi there. We have the funeral costs covered, so the £1700 in her current account she specifically wanted to be given to her partner (not married) after her death, but ive just read that if this debt is to be paid PLUS any benefits that were paid before she died (PIP, disability etc) need to be repaid, then I’m terrified of sending the money to her partner for fear of being left with nothing in which to pay off any remaining debts etc. 

I feel far too young to be dealing with this to be honest. It’s all so stressful at the worst time of your life  

When you say that you have the funeral costs covered, do you mean that your mother-in-law had a pre-paid plan, or that you have paid for the funeral yourselves?  If the former, then that could complicate things, as the £1700 will then be up for grabs for paying debts.  Re-payment of benefits first, then the credit card.

If you have paid for the funeral yourselves, then really the best way round this would be to use the £1700 to re-imburse yourselves then you can safely tell P&C to do one as the estate was insolvent after payment (or part payment) of the funeral fees.

No, she didn’t have a pre paid plan but she had put money away in a savings account which she transferred to my wife’s current account with the reference of “Funeral” About a month before she died. 

Silvertabby

Kimbooley said:

Silvertabby said:

Kimbooley said:

Torry_Quine said:

You absolutely don't have any liability to pay. The funeral has first right to any money and only if there's any after this do creditors get paid. it sounds like there's not any so the debt dies with her 

Hi there. We have the funeral costs covered, so the £1700 in her current account she specifically wanted to be given to her partner (not married) after her death, but ive just read that if this debt is to be paid PLUS any benefits that were paid before she died (PIP, disability etc) need to be repaid, then I’m terrified of sending the money to her partner for fear of being left with nothing in which to pay off any remaining debts etc. 

I feel far too young to be dealing with this to be honest. It’s all so stressful at the worst time of your life  

When you say that you have the funeral costs covered, do you mean that your mother-in-law had a pre-paid plan, or that you have paid for the funeral yourselves?  If the former, then that could complicate things, as the £1700 will then be up for grabs for paying debts.  Re-payment of benefits first, then the credit card.

If you have paid for the funeral yourselves, then really the best way round this would be to use the £1700 to re-imburse yourselves then you can safely tell P&C to do one as the estate was insolvent after payment (or part payment) of the funeral fees.

No, she didn’t have a pre paid plan but she had put money away in a savings account which she transferred to my wife’s current account with the reference of “Funeral” About a month before she died. 

Then, strictly speaking, the £1700 is up for grabs, I'm afraid.  Before making any payments, you will have to ensure that you have a complete list of all debts - including DWP, anything still owing on the car, any outstanding utility/rent  bills, etc, as well as the credit card debt.

Once you have a full list - bearing in mind that DWP could take months to get back to you - then be careful that you pay (or part pay) the debts in accordance with the very strict pecking order set down by law.  At this point, you may find Citizen's Advice helpful.

I know this sounds stressful, but that's only because it will drag on for a while.  Don't stand for any nonsence from P&C - if they hassle you for payment, just tell them that the Estate is unlikely to cover all known debts, but if they want to hurry things along by taking over the administration, then they are welcome to do so.  They'll soon back off.

Kimbooley

Silvertabby said:

Kimbooley said:

Silvertabby said:

Kimbooley said:

Torry_Quine said:

You absolutely don't have any liability to pay. The funeral has first right to any money and only if there's any after this do creditors get paid. it sounds like there's not any so the debt dies with her 

Hi there. We have the funeral costs covered, so the £1700 in her current account she specifically wanted to be given to her partner (not married) after her death, but ive just read that if this debt is to be paid PLUS any benefits that were paid before she died (PIP, disability etc) need to be repaid, then I’m terrified of sending the money to her partner for fear of being left with nothing in which to pay off any remaining debts etc. 

I feel far too young to be dealing with this to be honest. It’s all so stressful at the worst time of your life  

When you say that you have the funeral costs covered, do you mean that your mother-in-law had a pre-paid plan, or that you have paid for the funeral yourselves?  If the former, then that could complicate things, as the £1700 will then be up for grabs for paying debts.  Re-payment of benefits first, then the credit card.

If you have paid for the funeral yourselves, then really the best way round this would be to use the £1700 to re-imburse yourselves then you can safely tell P&C to do one as the estate was insolvent after payment (or part payment) of the funeral fees.

No, she didn’t have a pre paid plan but she had put money away in a savings account which she transferred to my wife’s current account with the reference of “Funeral” About a month before she died. 

Then, strictly speaking, the £1700 is up for grabs, I'm afraid.  Before making any payments, you will have to ensure that you have a complete list of all debts - including DWP, anything still owing on the car, any outstanding utility/rent  bills, etc, as well as the credit card debt.

Once you have a full list - bearing in mind that DWP could take months to get back to you - then be careful that you pay (or part pay) the debts in accordance with the very strict pecking order set down by law.  At this point, you may find Citizen's Advice helpful.

I know this sounds stressful, but that's only because it will drag on for a while.  Don't stand for any nonsence from P&C - if they hassle you for payment, just tell them that the Estate is unlikely to cover all known debts, but if they want to hurry things along by taking over the administration, then they are welcome to do so.  They'll soon back off.

Thank you for your help with this, I really do appreciate you taking the time to provide a thorough response, it means a lot to me.

So far I’ve managed to get Pretty much everything in terms of utilities, phone, rent, etc transferred over to her partner’s name as he’s still going to be living at their address. 

So really it’s just the credit card (which is only about £460 so i just want to pay it off from her leftover money!) and then I think a single Weekly PIP payment that was paid to her the day she went into hospice (she died two days after this) so that would be £157 ish to pay back I think. So all in all a relatively low sum - but I just want to be done with it and know we won’t be chased for anything more so I can transfer the remaining funds to her partner and crack on with the grieving process. 

As for the car, there’s £3k left on it but we will settle that privately with our own money with the finance company and take ownership. 

Sigh... all this stress for such a small ish amount of cash. They don’t make it easy, eh? 

.... would the State Pension need to be paid back? I can’t remember the date this got paid in before she died. I think benefits wise it’s just the PIP I would need to look into but I’m not sure if state pension needs paying back or if that was “hers” to keep and die with? 

Keep_pedalling

Silvertabby said:

Kimbooley said:

Silvertabby said:

Kimbooley said:

Torry_Quine said:

You absolutely don't have any liability to pay. The funeral has first right to any money and only if there's any after this do creditors get paid. it sounds like there's not any so the debt dies with her 

Hi there. We have the funeral costs covered, so the £1700 in her current account she specifically wanted to be given to her partner (not married) after her death, but ive just read that if this debt is to be paid PLUS any benefits that were paid before she died (PIP, disability etc) need to be repaid, then I’m terrified of sending the money to her partner for fear of being left with nothing in which to pay off any remaining debts etc. 

I feel far too young to be dealing with this to be honest. It’s all so stressful at the worst time of your life  

When you say that you have the funeral costs covered, do you mean that your mother-in-law had a pre-paid plan, or that you have paid for the funeral yourselves?  If the former, then that could complicate things, as the £1700 will then be up for grabs for paying debts.  Re-payment of benefits first, then the credit card.

If you have paid for the funeral yourselves, then really the best way round this would be to use the £1700 to re-imburse yourselves then you can safely tell P&C to do one as the estate was insolvent after payment (or part payment) of the funeral fees.

No, she didn’t have a pre paid plan but she had put money away in a savings account which she transferred to my wife’s current account with the reference of “Funeral” About a month before she died. 

Then, strictly speaking, the £1700 is up for grabs, I'm afraid.  Before making any payments, you will have to ensure that you have a complete list of all debts - including DWP, anything still owing on the car, any outstanding utility/rent  bills, etc, as well as the credit card debt.

Once you have a full list - bearing in mind that DWP could take months to get back to you - then be careful that you pay (or part pay) the debts in accordance with the very strict pecking order set down by law.  At this point, you may find Citizen's Advice helpful.

I know this sounds stressful, but that's only because it will drag on for a while.  Don't stand for any nonsence from P&C - if they hassle you for payment, just tell them that the Estate is unlikely to cover all known debts, but if they want to hurry things along by taking over the administration, then they are welcome to do so.  They'll soon back off.

I do not agree. The estate is insolvent ant the first call on the money in her account if the funeral expenses. I know the OP said that those expenses have been covered and they want that money to go to her partner, but there is no reason it should not be paid to whoever arranged the funeral. If they want to make a gift of the same amount to the partner then that is up to them.

No one should try to administer an insolvent estate. You should not go beyond sorting a funeral as far as finances are concerned, then simply write to all creditors explaining that the estate is insolvent and that no one is administering it. 

I would not wait for anything from Phillips & Cohen, just send them a letter informing them that the estate is insolvent ant that there is no administrator, that should be the end of it.

Silvertabby

Keep_pedalling said:

Silvertabby said:

Kimbooley said:

Silvertabby said:

Kimbooley said:

Torry_Quine said:

You absolutely don't have any liability to pay. The funeral has first right to any money and only if there's any after this do creditors get paid. it sounds like there's not any so the debt dies with her 

Hi there. We have the funeral costs covered, so the £1700 in her current account she specifically wanted to be given to her partner (not married) after her death, but ive just read that if this debt is to be paid PLUS any benefits that were paid before she died (PIP, disability etc) need to be repaid, then I’m terrified of sending the money to her partner for fear of being left with nothing in which to pay off any remaining debts etc. 

I feel far too young to be dealing with this to be honest. It’s all so stressful at the worst time of your life  

When you say that you have the funeral costs covered, do you mean that your mother-in-law had a pre-paid plan, or that you have paid for the funeral yourselves?  If the former, then that could complicate things, as the £1700 will then be up for grabs for paying debts.  Re-payment of benefits first, then the credit card.

If you have paid for the funeral yourselves, then really the best way round this would be to use the £1700 to re-imburse yourselves then you can safely tell P&C to do one as the estate was insolvent after payment (or part payment) of the funeral fees.

No, she didn’t have a pre paid plan but she had put money away in a savings account which she transferred to my wife’s current account with the reference of “Funeral” About a month before she died. 

Then, strictly speaking, the £1700 is up for grabs, I'm afraid.  Before making any payments, you will have to ensure that you have a complete list of all debts - including DWP, anything still owing on the car, any outstanding utility/rent  bills, etc, as well as the credit card debt.

Once you have a full list - bearing in mind that DWP could take months to get back to you - then be careful that you pay (or part pay) the debts in accordance with the very strict pecking order set down by law.  At this point, you may find Citizen's Advice helpful.

I know this sounds stressful, but that's only because it will drag on for a while.  Don't stand for any nonsence from P&C - if they hassle you for payment, just tell them that the Estate is unlikely to cover all known debts, but if they want to hurry things along by taking over the administration, then they are welcome to do so.  They'll soon back off.

I do not agree. The estate is insolvent ant the first call on the money in her account if the funeral expenses. I know the OP said that those expenses have been covered and they want that money to go to her partner, but there is no reason it should not be paid to whoever arranged the funeral. If they want to make a gift of the same amount to the partner then that is up to them.

No one should try to administer an insolvent estate. You should not go beyond sorting a funeral as far as finances are concerned, then simply write to all creditors explaining that the estate is insolvent and that no one is administering it. 

I would not wait for anything from Phillips & Cohen, just send them a letter informing them that the estate is insolvent ant that there is no administrator, that should be the end of it.

That would work if P&C accept the insolvency claim, but what if they push it?  I don't think the OP would be comfortable trying to cover up the transfer of funeral funds from the m-in-l's account to OP's wife's account just before she died.