PCM/IAS + mitigation: should I just give in & pay up?

grassmarket

Having read all the Announcements/FAQs & searched unsuccessfully for similar cases - clearly I’ve already made a lot of mistakes!

I can see no legal loopholes in my case & I now understand (at last!) that mitigating circumstances (medical emergency) count for nothing with the courts - just as they didn’t with PCM/IAS. 

My only question: if I continue to resist payment - how likely is PCM to bring the case to court? I’m not bothered about ignoring all the letters (up to LBCCC), or even defending myself in court - I believe it was the right thing to do, even if the law provides no protection.

I’ve searched here & found very few success cases involving PCM - most are old & have some kind of legal grounds. What I don’t know is: how litigious are PCM? I’ve already (wrongly) communicated with them & IAS. Does this make them more likely to bring it to court?

So - does PCM + mitigation = small claims court?

D_P_Dance

 I now understand (at last!) that mitigating circumstances (medical emergency) count for nothing with the courts 

Your understanding is incorrect.   Judges can, and frequentlyd do, throw out cases due to mitigating circumestance,  as do local authorities.   Judges are not fooled by thes scams, read this

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/injured-snowdon-hiker-wins-fight-8265483

There are several similar cases to this, some on here, keep looking.

Have you complained to your MP?

Coupon-mad

Whoever said mitigation (medical emergency) counts for nothing in court?  That's not necessarily true.

Tell us more.

grassmarket

Thanks for reply, but I don’t think any of this applies in my case. 

I’m really asking for views/experience on litigation activity from PCM.

Mitigating circumstances: a lawyer from my motoring legal advice service told me mitigation doesn’t count. Lawyer said the courts will only look at the legality of the charge based on the contract. IAS Adjudicator sympathised but said same. I’m sure I’ve seen it stated here too.

Other cases: I’ve searched extensively (Successful Cases & Advanced Search) for medical mitigating cases & anything relevant involving PCM. There are very few, they’re old & they’re usually about disability mitigation. 

The Daily Post article (£100 penalty for £2 unpaid parking when injured) seems very different from my situation.  It’s about ParkingEye (not PCM), judge dismissed it for being a penalty (not cost recovery) & it’s 7 years old. 

Coupon-mad

Tell us your facts.  Residential car park?  No permit?  Why were you there, etc.

Stop believing what the IAS said.

grassmarket

Coupon-mad said:

Whoever said mitigation (medical emergency) counts for nothing in court?  That's not necessarily true.

Tell us more.

That’s what the lawyer from motoring legal advice line told me yesterday. 

Having noticed an earlier text asking for help, but unable to recontact - I alerted 999, drove to/parked in controlled residential parking. I feared (from previous experience) that resident had again collapsed alone due to brain tumour. In the c.10 mins it took to find out that resident had just been taken to hospital & then find/display a permit - a ticket must have already been issued. But I didn’t see ticket until departure 20 mins later (it was dark & the ticket was well hidden under passenger wiper/bonnet. 

Trainerman

From the little bit you have said, I am sure you would have a Defence (signage, grace period) as well as mitigation. I am not a real expert here, but Coupon-mad and the others will surely be along/returning and can help you with a defence. I suggest you show the pcn with your details redacted so as to provide a bigger picture

Coupon-mad

grassmarket said:

Coupon-mad said:

Whoever said mitigation (medical emergency) counts for nothing in court?  That's not necessarily true.

Tell us more.

That’s what the lawyer from motoring legal advice line told me yesterday. 

Having noticed an earlier text asking for help, but unable to recontact - I alerted 999, drove to/parked in controlled residential parking. I feared (from previous experience) that resident had again collapsed alone due to brain tumour. In the c.10 mins it took to find out that resident had just been taken to hospital & then find/display a permit - a ticket must have already been issued. But I didn’t see ticket until departure 20 mins later (it was dark & the ticket was well hidden under passenger wiper/bonnet. 

Motoring legal advice is very general.

Our longstanding knowledge is specific to private parking and what you describe is not just mitigation, it's also a legal defence against the alleged contract.

So is the lack of consideration period to obtain a permit that you could not obtain.  It was impossible for you to comply within minutes to get a permit from a resident who turned out to be in hospital and the contract only offered parking to permit holders, so it was void for impossibility.

And I expect the signs were unlit and in minuscule text in a bush or placed high up on a random flat wall or beside the bins.

NO-ONE PAYS ROGUE EX-CLAMPERS, PCM.

We beat them in court pretty much every time and always re residential sites with poor signage and predatory ticketing within minutes.   No CCJ risk nor huge costs in play.

Have you not found the posts I made last year showing people the link to the Parking Prankster's blog about PCM's appearance on BBC's Watchdog, as a rogue trader who 'make it up most if the time'?

What you must do, though, is respond to PCM and to any LBC, stating that no contract was entered into and the signs are appalling and the ticketer failed to offer a grace period, which in this case needed time to ascertain where the resident was, and that they were safe.

The reason you must respond even though there is NO FAIR APPEAL, is to look reasonable later, in your telephone/Teams hearing.  Judges like to see parties engage and narrow the facts to rry to resolve cases, pre-court.

DO NOT OFFER MONEY.

DO TRY IAS BUT ONLY THE STANDARD ONE, not the non-standard £15 one where people pay to lose.  NONONO.

DO NOT RING MOTORING LEGAL HELPLINES!

Have you tried explaining the situation and asking the Managing Agent of the site to cancel the PCN?  They can tell PCM to cancel because the ex-clamper chancers are their agents.

D_P_Dance

These claims are heard in County Courts and considered under contract law by judges who can hear several such claims a day
Over 8 million PCNs are issued each year, most of them spurious.  The private parking industry is made up of rascals, knaves, ex-clampers and scammers.

Judges know this and are not easily fooled by dishonest claims.  Your lawyer's advice is to be taken with a very large pinch of salt.  

grassmarket

Thanks for the further positive info & advice. 

1. I haven’t found CM’s posts with links to Parking Prankster from last year? but I did find some older MSE ones via Google.
2. Good to know lack of consideration period is valid defence. Is anything else in my account a valid defence?
3. Even if signs were unreadable (I’d have to check) - I did know permit was required. I’d been given one to display on previous visits, without any problem. 

4. The permit I found & displayed (after PCN issued) was in fact invalid. Unknown to me, the PPC had been changed a few weeks earlier. PCM are aware I used this invalid permit, from my appeal to them. 

5. I have already appealed (unsuccessfully of course!) to PCM & IAS. Should I contact PCM again citing reasons you give (ie no contract, no grace period etc) - or say nothing more unless/until LBC?
6. I have (just) emailed the Managing Agent (Canonbury Management) but don’t expect any help.

Coupon-mad

Unknown to me, the PPC had been changed a few weeks earlier. 

Then the signs had changed without clear indication to alert people to the new permits and restrictions.  And it was dark.

Even more reason for the legal defence that you cannot and did not (and were unable to) enter into any contract with that parking firm.

Oh, and it breaches the IPC CoP section about where restrictions change.  Look it up and throw that in to replies to each IAS evidence stage.

Keep adding stuff to IAS, keep replying with new evidence.

PACE v Lengyel is relevant to a defence of the contract being void for impossibility.