Neighbour keeps his refuse bins on my property

lookstraightahead

wilfred30 said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

You need to be sensible with this one.  Firstly it's not 'your' house, it is the tenant's home until such time as his lease agreement comes to an end.  The tenant may not appreciate you stirring up trouble with his neighbour.  He's got to live there, don't forget; he doesn't have the luxury of being able to hop in his car and go somewhere else.  
Secondly, the property as described sounds rather like it might be a flying freehold.  Lots of buildings with access archways and so on are owned on such a basis.  Does your title deed include the road beneath the arch, or just the walls abutting it?  If so, your neighbours will have a right of access to the garages at the rear.  

Of course it's the OP's house.  It doesn't cease to belong to them just because it's rented out.

Having a right of access through to the garages doesn't give them the right to keep their 'items' in the access way.

I would have been mightily angry when I rented if my landlord of MY home didn't discuss it with me first and work out what I wanted done about it.

If you had a leased car would you want the lease company to complain about the neighbours parking in your garage? 

I take it you're not a landlord.

RelievedSheff

If it bothers you so much just keep moving his bins off of your property and putting them somewhere on his property. Preferably in the most awkward place possible. 

Section62

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

Section62 said:

saajan_12 said:

Semantics of who's house it is aside, the relevant point is it is still the tenant's home. 

I think this is more than semantics.  A property owner is not relieved of all their legal obligations and rights just because they are letting the property out.  The issue is the extent to which the owner is responsible and/or retains a right to act.

saajan_12 said:

Is this area part of the tenancy? If so, what items are left in an area they rent is upto the tenant. Legally, if the tenant allowed their neighbour to keep bins there (whether explicitly or by just ignoring it), that's their choice and its nothing to do with the LL. 

This (BiB) is incorrect.  The tenant cannot allow the neighbour to keep bins on land and deposit waste in them if the land isn't part of the neighbour's curtilage and there is no 'legal' agreement (e.g. a 'designated place' within (say) a lease)  (both the tenant and neighbour would be committing an offence, albeit of a technical nature)

The issue is the extent to which the landlord might be responsible for preventing unlawful use of the land by the tenant and/or others.  I'd suggest that this is something a Court would agree the landlord has a legitimate interest in.

saajan_12 said:

Practically, even if its not on area rented by the tenant, I'd still give the choice to the tenant. They are the one that has to live with either the daily annoyance of someone's bins there, or the tension when the neighbour is annoyed. The LL has neither. Everyone saying stand up for yourself.. its really not hurting the LL at all. 

Practically, I'd agree.  On the other hand, as the property owner the OP may end up with an expensive problem without gaining any benefit from improved neighbourly relations... that's how the 'hurt' might happen.

@Section62

What offence do you believe will be, or is being, committed?  Genuinely interested.  

Most likely EPA Section 33(1).

The disapplication provided by subsection 2 is tightly defined as "...in relation to household waste from a domestic property which is treated, kept or disposed of within the curtilage of the property".

Therefore if the waste does not remain within the curtilage of the domestic property it arises at, the disapplication does not apply.

Depending on the status of this land, and whether the neighbour could argue it formed part of his curtilage, all three parties could potentially commit an offence under this section. (the "knowingly permit" part in relation to the LL and tenant).

But note the point I made about the 'technical' nature of the offence, it isn't one that authorities are likely to proactively enforce unless there was a specific issue, or complaints about anti-social behaviour.  If the OP complained about the neighbour's anti-social behaviour then the council might be willing to send a warning letter reminding the neighbour they must keep their waste within the curtilage of their property. If it landed on my desk, that's what I'd do.

rexmedorum

I get that it used to be your home, but it's now become a buisiness and I think you should try and look at it more as such.

Is this an issue anybody has raised with you (tennants, other neighbours, council etc.)? If not it really doesn't make any business sense to waiste time / money on it. 

And don't assuming you're doing the tennants or future buyers any favours by persuing it, you can't look in their heads.

Ditzy_Mitzy

Section62 said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

Section62 said:

saajan_12 said:

Semantics of who's house it is aside, the relevant point is it is still the tenant's home. 

I think this is more than semantics.  A property owner is not relieved of all their legal obligations and rights just because they are letting the property out.  The issue is the extent to which the owner is responsible and/or retains a right to act.

saajan_12 said:

Is this area part of the tenancy? If so, what items are left in an area they rent is upto the tenant. Legally, if the tenant allowed their neighbour to keep bins there (whether explicitly or by just ignoring it), that's their choice and its nothing to do with the LL. 

This (BiB) is incorrect.  The tenant cannot allow the neighbour to keep bins on land and deposit waste in them if the land isn't part of the neighbour's curtilage and there is no 'legal' agreement (e.g. a 'designated place' within (say) a lease)  (both the tenant and neighbour would be committing an offence, albeit of a technical nature)

The issue is the extent to which the landlord might be responsible for preventing unlawful use of the land by the tenant and/or others.  I'd suggest that this is something a Court would agree the landlord has a legitimate interest in.

saajan_12 said:

Practically, even if its not on area rented by the tenant, I'd still give the choice to the tenant. They are the one that has to live with either the daily annoyance of someone's bins there, or the tension when the neighbour is annoyed. The LL has neither. Everyone saying stand up for yourself.. its really not hurting the LL at all. 

Practically, I'd agree.  On the other hand, as the property owner the OP may end up with an expensive problem without gaining any benefit from improved neighbourly relations... that's how the 'hurt' might happen.

@Section62

What offence do you believe will be, or is being, committed?  Genuinely interested.  

Most likely EPA Section 33(1).

The disapplication provided by subsection 2 is tightly defined as "...in relation to household waste from a domestic property which is treated, kept or disposed of within the curtilage of the property".

Therefore if the waste does not remain within the curtilage of the domestic property it arises at, the disapplication does not apply.

Depending on the status of this land, and whether the neighbour could argue it formed part of his curtilage, all three parties could potentially commit an offence under this section. (the "knowingly permit" part in relation to the LL and tenant).

But note the point I made about the 'technical' nature of the offence, it isn't one that authorities are likely to proactively enforce unless there was a specific issue, or complaints about anti-social behaviour.  If the OP complained about the neighbour's anti-social behaviour then the council might be willing to send a warning letter reminding the neighbour they must keep their waste within the curtilage of their property. If it landed on my desk, that's what I'd do.

Good luck arguing that in court.  You'd also have to make the case that putting the bins out is illegal, which would be somewhat inconvenient for the population at large.

Lavendyr

Leave it to your tenants. If you want to do anything, ask them if they are bothered. If they are bothered then discuss with them and figure out what they and you would like to do. 

You getting involved could cause issues for them. They are living there. 

Teapot55

Hi @AyJaydee

If you’re coming up for retirement I’d recommend thinking about whether long term you will still want the commitment of having a rental property. 

You’d need some sort of financial advice about when’s the best time - if any - to incur capital gains tax. Also about the best way to manage your assets.  

However, if your tenant is happy to remain in your property and they’re a good tenant then probably stay with being a landlord and only if they give notice think about selling. 

Definitely ask your tenant how they feel about the bin problem as suggested in previous post(s) so you can have a better idea of the full situation. 

The only person that would win against the neighbour would be another big bloke handy with his fists. That’s not going to happen. Just check with your insurance company that they’re not worried about fire risks caused by the neighbour’ bins then you can rest easy. Yes, they’re definitely an eyesore but unless there’s a health hazard, probably an intractable problem. 

McKneff

I wouldn't mention anything about fire risk to your insurance company. 

They will see it as a risk, then treble your premium....

Teapot55

McKneff said:

I wouldn't mention anything about fire risk to your insurance company. 

They will see it as a risk, then treble your premium....

Oh. Perhaps I shouldn’t have suggested it.

I was thinking the insurance company might have the expertise to advise the original poster that he doesn’t need to worry, or, alternatively, that it’s a problem and how they’re going to help him. 

Slinky

I wouldn't even bother asking the tenant if the bins annoy them. If the bins annoy them, they should be approaching you (the landlord) to take it up with the neighbour. It's just opening up a potential can of worms - tenant refusing to pay all their rent because the landlord hasn't fixed the problem with the neighbour's bin - comes to mind.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.