Company took money out of account without permission

brillopadsss

Hi, not sure if this is the right place to post but hopefully someone might be able to help? 

I signed up to a yoga studio last year on a six month contract and set up a standing order at the time. After six months I cancelled the standing order, but forgot to set anything new up and continued to attend a few classes. I remembered this new year and saw on their website it had gone onto a rolling contract and they were still logging it as payment owed (nothing coming out of my bank account as the standing order had ended). I emailed them to ask if I could set up the standing order again as I want to continue the subscription. I also let them know that under the consumer rights act they need to send a reminder if a subscription is going to become a rolling one (if they had I would have just set up a new one at the time) but was happy to create a new standing order. 

This was a couple of days ago, then today they have just taken everything I technically owed from having a rolling subscription for the last two months directly from my account with no communication. There is no direct debit or standing order set up and I they didn't say anything to me. Is this legal? I don't mind paying the subscription but wish they had discussed it with me first and perhaps I could have paid in installments. Also technically they are in breach of fair terms by not reminding me that a rolling subscription was about to start, so it all feels a bit shady. I have contacted them again and will go into speak to them in person but should I contact my bank to tell them it was unauthorised in the meantime? 

TadleyBaggie

If there is no direct debit I fail to see how a payment could be made. Did you make any payments by debit card?

emmajones1976

Before this goes any further, I think we need to clarify the difference between STANDING ORDER and DIRECT DEBIT, as I suspect you may have used the wrong terminology

Standing order - something YOU do from YOUR bank account, that YOU cancel. YOU dictate the payment amount and frequency, and only YOU can cancel it
Direct Debit - something the COMPANY sets up after you provide them with your bank details. THEY dictate the payment amount and frequency with your permission, and EITHER party can cancel it.

On the basis of the above, which had you set up with the company?

Also, how have they taken the money out. Does it say DD next to the transaction, or is it a card payment? For either, you must have provided those details at some point.

eskbanker

brillopadsss said:

today they have just taken everything I technically owed from having a rolling subscription for the last two months directly from my account with no communication. There is no direct debit or standing order set up and I they didn't say anything to me. Is this legal?

How did they get your bank details?  They can only access funds in your account via a direct debit or a continuous payment authority, but for either of those to apply, you'd have had to supply them with your account or debit card details, which you wouldn't typically have done if paying them by standing order.... 

born_again

If it was stated in the contract you took at that is was for a fixed term of 6 months, but then became a rolling contract you are stuck. They do not need to inform you.

Did you contact them to cancel the agreement? Or just cancel the payment method. But as per @emmajones1976.Exactly what payment method is involved as it can make a large difference to advice. As well as OP checking exactly they signed upto.
Link to website?

Zanderman

brillopadsss said:

Hi, not sure if this is the right place to post but hopefully someone might be able to help? 

I signed up to a yoga studio last year on a six month contract and set up a standing order at the time. After six months I cancelled the standing order, but forgot to set anything new up and continued to attend a few classes. I remembered this new year and saw on their website it had gone onto a rolling contract and they were still logging it as payment owed (nothing coming out of my bank account as the standing order had ended). I emailed them to ask if I could set up the standing order again as I want to continue the subscription. I also let them know that under the consumer rights act they need to send a reminder if a subscription is going to become a rolling one (if they had I would have just set up a new one at the time) but was happy to create a new standing order. 

This was a couple of days ago, then today they have just taken everything I technically owed from having a rolling subscription for the last two months directly from my account with no communication. There is no direct debit or standing order set up and I they didn't say anything to me. Is this legal? I don't mind paying the subscription but wish they had discussed it with me first and perhaps I could have paid in installments. Also technically they are in breach of fair terms by not reminding me that a rolling subscription was about to start, so it all feels a bit shady. I have contacted them again and will go into speak to them in person but should I contact my bank to tell them it was unauthorised in the meantime? 

If there really is no DD or SO then they cannot withdraw cash from your account. But you say they have.

So either there is a DD or you have paid them at some point using a debit card and they have a CPA (continuous payment authority) which is a bit like a DD but uses the debit card info and will not appear in your bank account payment lists.

Re-check your account for DDs and if there isn't one it must be a CPA.

If they have a CPA they can take what they want - but you will, at some point, have authorised that CPA. Have you paid by card recently and signed a subscription agreement?

You can ask your bank to cancel a CPA - but you really need to find out first what you signed, as it may be contractual. You say you continued to attend classes after the SO was cancelled, so you presumably owe them money for those as you didn't pay at the time.

MEM62

brillopadsss said:

I signed up to a yoga studio last year on a six month contract and set up a standing order at the time. After six months I cancelled the standing order

today they have just taken everything I technically owed from having a rolling subscription for the last two months directly from my account with no communication. There is no direct debit or standing order set up

This did not happen as you have detailed it above.  You need to check further as to what actually transpired.   

brillopadsss

Zanderman said:

brillopadsss said:

Hi, not sure if this is the right place to post but hopefully someone might be able to help? 

I signed up to a yoga studio last year on a six month contract and set up a standing order at the time. After six months I cancelled the standing order, but forgot to set anything new up and continued to attend a few classes. I remembered this new year and saw on their website it had gone onto a rolling contract and they were still logging it as payment owed (nothing coming out of my bank account as the standing order had ended). I emailed them to ask if I could set up the standing order again as I want to continue the subscription. I also let them know that under the consumer rights act they need to send a reminder if a subscription is going to become a rolling one (if they had I would have just set up a new one at the time) but was happy to create a new standing order. 

This was a couple of days ago, then today they have just taken everything I technically owed from having a rolling subscription for the last two months directly from my account with no communication. There is no direct debit or standing order set up and I they didn't say anything to me. Is this legal? I don't mind paying the subscription but wish they had discussed it with me first and perhaps I could have paid in installments. Also technically they are in breach of fair terms by not reminding me that a rolling subscription was about to start, so it all feels a bit shady. I have contacted them again and will go into speak to them in person but should I contact my bank to tell them it was unauthorised in the meantime? 

If there really is no DD or SO then they cannot withdraw cash from your account. But you say they have.

So either there is a DD or you have paid them at some point using a debit card and they have a CPA (continuous payment authority) which is a bit like a DD but uses the debit card info and will not appear in your bank account payment lists.

Re-check your account for DDs and if there isn't one it must be a CPA.

If they have a CPA they can take what they want - but you will, at some point, have authorised that CPA. Have you paid by card recently and signed a subscription agreement?

You can ask your bank to cancel a CPA - but you really need to find out first what you signed, as it may be contractual. You say you continued to attend classes after the SO was cancelled, so you presumably owe them money for those as you didn't pay at the time.

Thanks so much, so it was a standing order when I set it up but looks like what I signed included a CPA too, so that's how they took it. I wasn't actually aware of CPAs. Most gyms now don't even have proper contracts so I wasn't used to reading through this type of agreement, but still my fault for not reading it. They are sending me the agreement to review. Thanks again 

emmajones1976

A bit of a bizarre arrangement where a gym allows people to pay by standing order, rather than them taking the payments themselves, and then takes it off a card after 6 months.

Which gym is this?

brillopadsss

born_again said:

If it was stated in the contract you took at that is was for a fixed term of 6 months, but then became a rolling contract you are stuck. They do not need to inform you.

Did you contact them to cancel the agreement? Or just cancel the payment method. But as per @emmajones1976.Exactly what payment method is involved as it can make a large difference to advice. As well as OP checking exactly they signed upto.
Link to website?

Thanks so much, for the subscription I gathered from government guidance (I can't post links yet but if you search for 'subscriptions and automatic rollovers - gov.uk' it's the first one) that even if it says that it will turn into a rolling contract it could be seen as unfair if they don't send you a proper reminder.

born_again

Is this a physical yoga studio or a online one?

Where a CPA is involved there is not need for them to inform you of it becoming a rolling agreement.