Bulb - significantly increased monthly payments

Astria

Gerry1 said:

Astria said:

Do you have a smart meter? If so, then some companies allow you to be billed monthly on the actual usage rather than guessed usage throughout the year so you'll neither build up a credit or debit, but you'll have to settle your current debt first.

You don't need a smart meter to have Variable Monthly Direct Debit, at least with companies other than Bulb.  The Op shouldn't be using an expensive immersion heater unless the gas system can't provide hot water.

I sit corrected

Do you know which suppliers support them? I asked EON and EDF and they both said a smart meter was required to "get accurate readings for the bills". I don't know why they can't just bill from a manually entered meter reading. 

Gerry1

Astria said:

Gerry1 said:

Astria said:

Do you have a smart meter? If so, then some companies allow you to be billed monthly on the actual usage rather than guessed usage throughout the year so you'll neither build up a credit or debit, but you'll have to settle your current debt first.

You don't need a smart meter to have Variable Monthly Direct Debit, at least with companies other than Bulb.  The Op shouldn't be using an expensive immersion heater unless the gas system can't provide hot water.

I sit corrected

Do you know which suppliers support them? I asked EON and EDF and they both said a smart meter was required to "get accurate readings for the bills". I don't know why they can't just bill from a manually entered meter reading. 

I'm with EDF (and BG) on Variable DD without any smart meters.  AFAIK Shell Energy, E.On, ESB/So, SSE and Ecotricity are some of the other companies that offer this, reportedly also Octopus, E.ON Next and Scottish Power.

MrsBrush

Astria said:

Do you have a smart meter? If so, then some companies allow you to be billed monthly on the actual usage rather than guessed usage throughout the year so you'll neither build up a credit or debit, but you'll have to settle your current debt first.

Gerry1 said:

Astria said:

Do you have a smart meter? If so, then some companies allow you to be billed monthly on the actual usage rather than guessed usage throughout the year so you'll neither build up a credit or debit, but you'll have to settle your current debt first.

You don't need a smart meter to have Variable Monthly Direct Debit, at least with companies other than Bulb.  The Op shouldn't be using an expensive immersion heater unless the gas system can't provide hot water.

@Astria - I totally agree. That is what I expected to happen. I wasn't expecting to be dealing with a company who wants to use their customers as a cash machine.

@Gerry1 - that is why I want to change companies, sooner rather than later, I hate Bulb even more than I did previously! 

Also, current heating system is ancient - it is a 1972 original hot air gas boiler, installed when the house was built. The system is decrepit and the boiler is efficient in that it does heat downstairs nicely, but the fan is on its way out and the heat doesn't disburse through the house properly any longer - so we have cold spots upstairs. The hot water part no longer works, and it is almost as expensive to buy the replacement parts to get the hot water side working as it would be to fit a totally new boiler. Hence currently using the electric immersion heater, until we can get a new full heating system sorted out in the spring. As I say, I do not want to be replacing a full system, complete with floorboards up, to fit pipes and rads in the middle of winter. So it will have to wait for now.

@dbks - thank you, will look at the link you shared. 

Yes, we do have a smart meter, so this is an actual reading not an estimate. And from what I can see, the meter readings are being sent to them daily, so it is accurate, and it does look like £164 will be about right. As I say, I am happy to increase the DD, and pay the (small) £22.79 shortfall. I would much rather pay for what I use, as I did with OVO previously - and where I had much more control, even though I did not have the smart meter at my old house.

I am absolutely fine with the estimated monthly payments needing time to adjust, as we have just moved in. To be honest the monthly bills were anyone's guess initially! I am not so worried about that. Just to clarify, the account balance is currently £131.19 in credit as at today.

Here is what Bulb said:

"To make sure you cover the cost of your energy usage over winter, we're increasing your payments to £200.60 for the next 7 months." 

 "Your monthly payments aren't covering your energy usage" 

"You're using £164.23 of energy a month on average, but you've only been paying £153.98. That's £10.25 too low." 

 "Your balance is lower than it should be at this time of year"

"You should have £231.81 credit in your account at this time of year, but your January statement showed your balance was £-22.79. That's a difference of £254.60."

 

mmm... Yeah, so that tells me I need to pay £164 instead of £153, and whatever shortfall came from the first payment of    £120 in October, and the 2 x £153 payments since. By their latest statement (dated a week ago) the shortfall was £22.79!! And, again just to triple clarify, the account balance is £131 IN CREDIT as at this morning!

This is the bit that really annoyed me...

They KNOW I moved into this house in October. They decided on the level of DD, and they took the first payment 3 days after I set the account up, which was the day after I moved in. They weren't letting any grass grow! They then very quickly (within 10 days) decided to up the DD to £153. So, as a result, they also KNOW that I would not have built up a credit balance.  

The first payment coming out during moving week was unhelpful in itself. I know it has to be paid, so I didn't argue, even though a couple of weeks grace would have nice. 

The other annoying part of this is that this is the old owner's choice of company, not mine, and it seems I am stuck with them. They know this, and they seem to be doing what they always did - using their customers as an unlimited cash cow. 

emmajones1976

MrsBrush said:

This is the bit that really annoyed me...

They KNOW I moved into this house in October. They decided on the level of DD

...the same as ANY other company would have done. Another company may have guessed far too much. Another may have guessed far too little. This is how it works when they have nothing to go off.

As for saying they are treating you like a cash cow - are you aware you will only pay for the energy you use and they will currently be making a substantial loss on you anyway?

MWT

MrsBrush said:

"You should have £231.81 credit in your account at this time of year, but your January statement showed your balance was £-22.79. That's a difference of £254.60."

 

mmm... Yeah, so that tells me I need to pay £164 instead of £153, and whatever shortfall came from the first payment of    £120 in October, and the 2 x £153 payments since. By their latest statement (dated a week ago) the shortfall was £22.79!! And, again just to triple clarify, the account balance is £131 IN CREDIT as at this morning!

The bit that may not be quite clear which explains that £254.60 difference is that they are expecting you to maintain your account balance at a level that will cover at least the next months payment at all times, not just at the point in the month when the bill payment is taken.

So it comes down to the timing of the bills and your monthly payments along with the balance you have kept in the account.

MrsBrush

MWT said:

MrsBrush said:

"You should have £231.81 credit in your account at this time of year, but your January statement showed your balance was £-22.79. That's a difference of £254.60."

 

mmm... Yeah, so that tells me I need to pay £164 instead of £153, and whatever shortfall came from the first payment of    £120 in October, and the 2 x £153 payments since. By their latest statement (dated a week ago) the shortfall was £22.79!! And, again just to triple clarify, the account balance is £131 IN CREDIT as at this morning!

The bit that may not be quite clear which explains that £254.60 difference is that they are expecting you to maintain your account balance at a level that will cover at least the next months payment at all times, not just at the point in the month when the bill payment is taken.

So it comes down to the timing of the bills and your monthly payments along with the balance you have kept in the account.

Even more annoying, but at least it is an explanation, so thank you @MWT. I had no option but to sign up with them (apparently, seems it is not possible to switch until 3 weeks after moving house - at least that is what I was told by Ovo and Bulb when we moved!).

Because of rising prices and the advice to stick with svr and cap that has been coming from everywhere, I stayed with Bulb. Having re-read the T&C's, I cant see anything that tells me I need to run a significant credit balance that will cover at least a months future payments (so when you look at timings, it is closer to 2 months payments in advance). I know that the money is "safe" - but where is the interest on the credit balance (Ovo paid 5%!). I pay on DD monthly, so whilst happy to have a bit of additional credit in the account, I think that Bulb's demand is excessive and their reasoning suspect. It isn't the customer's fault that they operated under a fundamentally flawed pricing model, and got caught out by rising global costs, so asking residential customers to bail them out now is unfair - particularly as it was not a company I would have touched with a bargepole by choice.

Who would you recommend moving to? I don't want to stay with Bulb a moment longer than I have to. If the monthly cost is going to go up whether I stay or not, at the rate of knots I expect, I at least want to pay my money to a company I have chosen and get some decent customer service.

MWT

MrsBrush said:

Having re-read the T&C's, I cant see anything that tells me I need to run a significant credit balance that will cover at least a months future payments (so when you look at timings, it is closer to 2 months payments in advance).

This bit is where it comes from...

"Unless otherwise agreed, you must pay for the supply in advance via your chosen payment method (for example, by Direct Debit)."

So they expect a months payment in advance on say, the 1st of the month, they will bill you for the months usage on the 1st of the following month and your next DD is due that same day.

So in theory you always have a balance equal to the next months use, but if course it never quite works out like that as your actual bill is rarely exactly 1/12th of your estimated annual use.

So when they do their calculations of what you need to pay they are trying to get back to that ideal position where you are always paying in advance and your balance is always at least equal to the next months bill...

As for moving elsewhere, I moved from Bulb to Octopus a couple of years ago and I've been happy there.

No supplier is perfect they all have flaws, but in general I've had no issues at Octopus that I couldn't get resolved and their policies are and remain customer friendly even at this difficult time.

They have been attracting considerable inward investment, which makes them distinctly more stable than the other smaller companies that have failed recently, and are no longer a small supplier as a result of their rapid growth.

It isn't easy to switch at the moment though, but I do understand your desire to do so...

t0rt0ise

I'm with bulb too and have had a similar email. Their figures for me are suspect and they neglected to take into account the DD they took two weeks ago. So I went to the website where you can change your DD level yourself and while they set limits, it did allow me to choose an amount much lower than they suggest. It increased my DD by just £5. Of course they'll do this every month which will truly !!!!!! me off and I will leave them as soon as I am able.

You can do the variable DD option if you email to ask. They then expect you to put in a meter reading each month which is an option that I'm considering.

MrsBrush

The website wont let me reduce the DD amount, which is unhelpful, and I was on hold for 1/2 hour this morning to try and speak to someone. Not impressed at all. And that wording, so helpfully highlighted by @MWT is  ambiguous, it isn't explicit about what it means. I consider myself to have a decent handle of this sort of stuff, and that statement doesn't tell me that I need to have a largish lump sum lodged with them at all times. Perish the poor customer who really doesn't have a clue, and hasn't got the financial means to pay upfront!

I have sent Bulb an email, expressing my concerns and objections, but not yet heard back. Probably because most of their customers have also done the same thing!

Possibly not the wisest idea, but I am so p**d off with them that I have told them I will happily cancel my direct debit and pay them by cheque once a month if they don't reduce the monthly payment! It might at least get their attention!

I am also exploring how easy it will be to go to Octopus. I have heard good things about them from lots of people over the last few months, so worth thinking about moving, even if I cant actually do it yet.

emmajones1976

If you happily cancel your Direct Debit and pay them by cheque, they will quite happily put up your unit rates to match the "pay on receipt of bill" ones, which are higher than the DD rates. Nose, cut, face, spite.