Constant arguments over money

Lorandee

Lorandee said:

london21 said:

The major issue I see is lack of communication.

Money sometimes make things complicated.

He should have informed you about the loan and cutting his hours.

It might be he has now changed his mind and wants a property of his own or jointly.
It could also be that because you went from not earning career break to now earning £1500 he wants you to contribute more towards the bills.

Communication and trust will need to be established. 

Thanks for your reply. I think the problem stems from when we met he had been married for nearly 30 years and they had a high income and spent their money. Had a 5 bed detached house on an interest only mortgage and then the prices crashed as they divorced so I've always been very protective of my equity as he's never had any. I am frugal and only ever spend on the kids. His  ex wife tried to financially ruin him, didn't handle the split well at all. Tried to make him bankrupt. So he finds it hard to trust. When we got engaged we always said we would sign pre nups so he gets to keep his pension i get to keep my house. He's always sad he doesnt want to own any part of my house. As soon as I started earning everything I earned went into the family/house and I've been left with spending money of £200 irrespective of if I worked or not. We don't even talk about getting married anymore I think the financial diggerences could split us up in the end which devastates me as we do love eachother. 

Whoops. Nearly 20 years not 30 years!

london21

Lorandee said:

Lorandee said:

london21 said:

The major issue I see is lack of communication.

Money sometimes make things complicated.

He should have informed you about the loan and cutting his hours.

It might be he has now changed his mind and wants a property of his own or jointly.
It could also be that because you went from not earning career break to now earning £1500 he wants you to contribute more towards the bills.

Communication and trust will need to be established. 

Thanks for your reply. I think the problem stems from when we met he had been married for nearly 30 years and they had a high income and spent their money. Had a 5 bed detached house on an interest only mortgage and then the prices crashed as they divorced so I've always been very protective of my equity as he's never had any. I am frugal and only ever spend on the kids. His  ex wife tried to financially ruin him, didn't handle the split well at all. Tried to make him bankrupt. So he finds it hard to trust. When we got engaged we always said we would sign pre nups so he gets to keep his pension i get to keep my house. He's always sad he doesnt want to own any part of my house. As soon as I started earning everything I earned went into the family/house and I've been left with spending money of £200 irrespective of if I worked or not. We don't even talk about getting married anymore I think the financial diggerences could split us up in the end which devastates me as we do love eachother. 

Whoops. Nearly 20 years not 30 years!

Ok seems he has not moved on and still scarred from the divorce.

He probably finds it really hard to trust people because of the 20 years relationship that ended badly for him financially.

You seem very different also when it coms to finance, you mentioned you are frugal.

Again you both need to work on building trust and communication.

Might need to seek external help such as counselling.

You have been together for 10 years and 3 children, you will both need to sort out the issues if you want to stay together before it is too late.

Lorandee

london21 said:

Lorandee said:

Lorandee said:

london21 said:

The major issue I see is lack of communication.

Money sometimes make things complicated.

He should have informed you about the loan and cutting his hours.

It might be he has now changed his mind and wants a property of his own or jointly.
It could also be that because you went from not earning career break to now earning £1500 he wants you to contribute more towards the bills.

Communication and trust will need to be established. 

Thanks for your reply. I think the problem stems from when we met he had been married for nearly 30 years and they had a high income and spent their money. Had a 5 bed detached house on an interest only mortgage and then the prices crashed as they divorced so I've always been very protective of my equity as he's never had any. I am frugal and only ever spend on the kids. His  ex wife tried to financially ruin him, didn't handle the split well at all. Tried to make him bankrupt. So he finds it hard to trust. When we got engaged we always said we would sign pre nups so he gets to keep his pension i get to keep my house. He's always sad he doesnt want to own any part of my house. As soon as I started earning everything I earned went into the family/house and I've been left with spending money of £200 irrespective of if I worked or not. We don't even talk about getting married anymore I think the financial diggerences could split us up in the end which devastates me as we do love eachother. 

Whoops. Nearly 20 years not 30 years!

Ok seems he has not moved on and still scarred from the divorce.

He probably finds it really hard to trust people because of the 20 years relationship that ended badly for him financially.

You seem very different also when it coms to finance, you mentioned you are frugal.

Again you both need to work on building trust and communication.

Might need to seek external help such as counselling.

You have been together for 10 years and 3 children, you will both need to sort out the issues if you want to stay together before it is too late.

Thanks. I will look into counselling as I fear splitting up on the cards if things don't improve. 

theoretica

I think you need to run some future scenarios long before they become current and emotive.  Do you see yourselves living in that house forever?   The most even would be to sell it, buy a new place together and you put a lot of money into your own pension.  You would then both have income in retirement and both be living in a place you owned.  Otherwise how might you balance your house once the mortgage is paid off against his income from pensions for both living and spending?  Being property rich is lovely, but you need money to live on too, and being pension rich is great, but you need somewhere to live.

Lorandee

theoretica said:

I think you need to run some future scenarios long before they become current and emotive.  Do you see yourselves living in that house forever?   The most even would be to sell it, buy a new place together and you put a lot of money into your own pension.  You would then both have income in retirement and both be living in a place you owned.  Otherwise how might you balance your house once the mortgage is paid off against his income from pensions for both living and spending?  Being property rich is lovely, but you need money to live on too, and being pension rich is great, but you need somewhere to live.

It was supposed to be the forever home because when I bought it it was just before the house prices soared and my parents loaned the money to have an extension to convert a bungalow to a detached house with a decent garden. If we moved we would have to downsize to stay in the area. He paid the loan whilst I wasn't working and I'm taking over the payments now. What he has paid though I will give back with interest when I have the money. In the very distant future when I retire I will have hopefully a half decent work pension, state pension and if I inherit money I would buy a property rent out to subsidise my earnings. When my partner retires he will use his lump sum to purchase his own rental property and have the income from that also. Its so frustrating that we constantly bicker over what I think is a really good partnership. I think male pride comes into play because he wants to feel he owns the family house but I have about £300k equity and currently he has none. 

Pollycat

Lorandee said:

theoretica said:

I think you need to run some future scenarios long before they become current and emotive.  Do you see yourselves living in that house forever?   The most even would be to sell it, buy a new place together and you put a lot of money into your own pension.  You would then both have income in retirement and both be living in a place you owned.  Otherwise how might you balance your house once the mortgage is paid off against his income from pensions for both living and spending?  Being property rich is lovely, but you need money to live on too, and being pension rich is great, but you need somewhere to live.

It was supposed to be the forever home because when I bought it it was just before the house prices soared and my parents loaned the money to have an extension to convert a bungalow to a detached house with a decent garden. If we moved we would have to downsize to stay in the area. He paid the loan whilst I wasn't working and I'm taking over the payments now. What he has paid though I will give back with interest when I have the money. In the very distant future when I retire I will have hopefully a half decent work pension, state pension and if I inherit money I would buy a property rent out to subsidise my earnings. When my partner retires he will use his lump sum to purchase his own rental property and have the income from that also. Its so frustrating that we constantly bicker over what I think is a really good partnership. I think male pride comes into play because he wants to feel he owns the family house but I have about £300k equity and currently he has none. 

I've bolded what jumps out at me from your post.
It's very much 'me' and 'I'.

The house was supposed to be your 'forever' home but that was before you met your partner.
Does he consider it as his 'forever home'?
Does he even like the house, does he even like the location?

You seem to think you have a good partnership but I think you both have the same attitude to 'what's mine is mine and is going to remain mine'.

You are not on the same page financially. I'm not even sure if you're on the same book.

Lorandee

Pollycat said:

Lorandee said:

theoretica said:

I think you need to run some future scenarios long before they become current and emotive.  Do you see yourselves living in that house forever?   The most even would be to sell it, buy a new place together and you put a lot of money into your own pension.  You would then both have income in retirement and both be living in a place you owned.  Otherwise how might you balance your house once the mortgage is paid off against his income from pensions for both living and spending?  Being property rich is lovely, but you need money to live on too, and being pension rich is great, but you need somewhere to live.

It was supposed to be the forever home because when I bought it it was just before the house prices soared and my parents loaned the money to have an extension to convert a bungalow to a detached house with a decent garden. If we moved we would have to downsize to stay in the area. He paid the loan whilst I wasn't working and I'm taking over the payments now. What he has paid though I will give back with interest when I have the money. In the very distant future when I retire I will have hopefully a half decent work pension, state pension and if I inherit money I would buy a property rent out to subsidise my earnings. When my partner retires he will use his lump sum to purchase his own rental property and have the income from that also. Its so frustrating that we constantly bicker over what I think is a really good partnership. I think male pride comes into play because he wants to feel he owns the family house but I have about £300k equity and currently he has none. 

I've bolded what jumps out at me from your post.
It's very much 'me' and 'I'.

The house was supposed to be your 'forever' home but that was before you met your partner.
Does he consider it as his 'forever home'?
Does he even like the house, does he even like the location?

You seem to think you have a good partnership but I think you both have the same attitude to 'what's mine is mine and is going to remain mine'.

You are not on the same page financially. I'm not even sure if you're on the same book.

We viewed the house together and chose it together and had the same aspirations to make it our family home. He didn't financially contribute to the purchase as he wasn't in a position to. So that is why I say my house. Its still our home though. Can you be a couple and be financially totally seperate? Before he took out a loan without telling me I never spoke in these terms and I know it doesn't sound good. It Looks doesnt feel great but I don't know what the answer is hence coming on here!

Pollycat

Lorandee said:

Pollycat said:

Lorandee said:

theoretica said:

I think you need to run some future scenarios long before they become current and emotive.  Do you see yourselves living in that house forever?   The most even would be to sell it, buy a new place together and you put a lot of money into your own pension.  You would then both have income in retirement and both be living in a place you owned.  Otherwise how might you balance your house once the mortgage is paid off against his income from pensions for both living and spending?  Being property rich is lovely, but you need money to live on too, and being pension rich is great, but you need somewhere to live.

It was supposed to be the forever home because when I bought it it was just before the house prices soared and my parents loaned the money to have an extension to convert a bungalow to a detached house with a decent garden. If we moved we would have to downsize to stay in the area. He paid the loan whilst I wasn't working and I'm taking over the payments now. What he has paid though I will give back with interest when I have the money. In the very distant future when I retire I will have hopefully a half decent work pension, state pension and if I inherit money I would buy a property rent out to subsidise my earnings. When my partner retires he will use his lump sum to purchase his own rental property and have the income from that also. Its so frustrating that we constantly bicker over what I think is a really good partnership. I think male pride comes into play because he wants to feel he owns the family house but I have about £300k equity and currently he has none. 

I've bolded what jumps out at me from your post.
It's very much 'me' and 'I'.

The house was supposed to be your 'forever' home but that was before you met your partner.
Does he consider it as his 'forever home'?
Does he even like the house, does he even like the location?

You seem to think you have a good partnership but I think you both have the same attitude to 'what's mine is mine and is going to remain mine'.

You are not on the same page financially. I'm not even sure if you're on the same book.

We viewed the house together and chose it together and had the same aspirations to make it our family home. He didn't financially contribute to the purchase as he wasn't in a position to. So that is why I say my house. Its still our home though. Can you be a couple and be financially totally seperate? Before he took out a loan without telling me I never spoke in these terms and I know it doesn't sound good. It Looks doesnt feel great but I don't know what the answer is hence coming on here!

I asked what input he had in the house purchase as you said in your first post:

  I had my own house which had about £80k equity in it at the time.

so it sounded like - to me - that the house you live in was yours before you met.

Yes, you can be a couple and be financially totally separate.

But only if both of you are happy with the arrangement.

And it's very clear that neither of you likes the other's attitude to money.

It seems like the fact he took out a loan without even mentioning it to you was the catalyst that has made you question how you both deal with money.

The answer is to have a very frank, unemotional, serious talk about where you both are financially and what you both expect from the future.

pinkshoes

Dropping work hours and taking out a £17k loan without discussion would be enough for me to end a relationship.

That's not about separate finances! That's being dishonest and a d*ck! You have 3 kids together that need supporting, so your finances can never be completely separate. By cutting his hours and reducing his income by £1000 a month is depriving his own kids! Not the actions of a person I would want to be with...

Pollycat

Lorandee said:

My partner and I met whilst he was going through a messy divorce and he subsequently went into an IVA. He is a high earner but they were hit by the flop in property market Nd had loans etc. I had my own house which had about £80k equity in it at the time. He has always said he does not want to own my house. My house is mine and his pension is his. He is protective over the pension as his wife took £60k of it on their divorce.  We have always had seperate accounts due to his financial history. We have been together for 10 years. We have 3 children and he has 2 other children who are now adults and live with their mother. 
When we had the kids I went on a career break for 5 years and we lived off his wage. My mortgage is low. Less than £300 a month. I've now started earning again £1500 a month. So basically he has been income rich and I property rich which I thought makes a great partnership. He just can't get over the house not being 'ours' he recently took out  £17k loan without telling me. When I asked him about it he said we are financially seperate so its not my concern. I'm not sure what I'm even asking for but does anyone have a similar setup with their partner and are we condemned to arguing all of the time? He's just reduced his hours and shaved about £1000 off his monthly income so where he was paying 2/3 of the bills so should he now pay less due to him reducing his hours without even consulting me because its 'his income? 

Re the bits in bold:
these are contradictory.

It sounds like he's suddenly taken stock of where he is financially and wants 'in' to ownership of the house.
I'd be asking why he's changed his stance on the house.
Especially as he seems to think his money is his and it's perfectly acceptable to take out a substantial loan and reduce his working hours (which presumably means he'll contribute less to the household) without consulting you at all.

Like pinkshoes, it would have been a deal-breaker for me too.
But we have a very different attitude to money and open-ness about it.


Have you even talked about this in a calm manner?