UKPC/ DCB Legal - county court claim for PCN from 2017!

conabb

Hi everyone! 

Looking for some advice from you experts! A parking fine was slapped to my windscreen after parking in the MetroCentre in 2017. Did the dirty and ignored it until a county court claim was issued on 13/12/2021 (Will not be doing this again following advise from this forum!) .I have acknowledged on moneyclaim.gov and sent a SAR to UKPC on 21/12/2021. 

I have read the newbie threads and began constructing a defence. The issues in the claim are that parking in the MetroCentre is free however the fine is for not parking within an allocated bay. The driver was parked in between two allocated bays, not realising the space between was not an actual space. The driver was not blocking the roadway or pedestrian crossings. I have torn all the nasty letters I have received over the years and cannot see the pictures of the claim until UKPC acknowledge and action my SAR so difficult to recall exact details. 

I cannot find the T's and C's for parking as of 2017 however have obtained a copy following a quick google for 2019. It states "to park only within marked bays and no road way parking". The driver did not see this signage whilst parking in the customer multi-story car park. The space the driver occupied did not have any signage to not park or as far as believed as the time passed was so long ago. 

Would it be best to use that as my defence? I feel it may not be very strong on its own however hands are tied due to the amount of time passed.

Also concerned UKPC may not respond to my SAR in time for the defence to be submitted which I suspect is 18/01/2022 (provided i acknowledged on 21/12/2021).

Final note, the registered keeper was not the driver in this case, the driver is a family member of the keeper and the driver is constructing the defence on behalf of the keeper. I imagine it would be the keeper required to provide evidence should this go to court rather than the driver?  

Appreciate any help 

Le_Kirk

The fact that the data from your SAR will not be back to use for the defence is not an issue; it will be more useful to you at witness statement (WS) stage.  Do you still have the original NTK/PCN?  If so have a look and see if it is POFA compliant (guidance in NEWBIE sticky).  If it is, the driver issue is irrelevant, if it isn't then you have a defence as keeper because liability cannot be transferred from driver to keeper.  Keep the driver's name out of it! 

conabb

Le_Kirk said:

The fact that the data from your SAR will not be back to use for the defence is not an issue; it will be more useful to you at witness statement (WS) stage.  Do you still have the original NTK/PCN?  If so have a look and see if it is POFA compliant (guidance in NEWBIE sticky).  If it is, the driver issue is irrelevant, if it isn't then you have a defence as keeper because liability cannot be transferred from driver to keeper.  Keep the driver's name out of it! 

Thanks for the info! Sadly I don't have the original PCN, my ignorance 5 years ago is catching up to me. Will avoid any driver/ keeper argument for now  

KeithP

conabb said:

...a county court claim was issued on 13/12/2021.
I have acknowledged on moneyclaim.gov on 21/12/2021. 

With a Claim Issue Date of 13th December, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 17th January 2022 to file your Defence.

That's nearly two weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Tapluk3

Hi i have just joined and do not know how to post on here and ask for advice, i am a female in my 70's and need some advice if anyone can help please, it concerns 2 pcn's 5 years 5 months ago, Ukpc and Dcb Legal and have had a county court claim against me, thankyou Sandra

patient_dream

Tapluk3 said:

Hi i have just joined and do not know how to post on here and ask for advice, i am a female in my 70's and need some advice if anyone can help please, it concerns 2 pcn's 5 years 5 months ago, Ukpc and Dcb Legal and have had a county court claim against me, thankyou Sandra

Hi, it is important that you have your own thread which saves confusion

You can create your own here

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/post/discussion/parking-tickets-fines-parking

You also need to read the NEWBIES thread on the front page and then this thread

DCBL letters ... forum group thread
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6237177/dcbl-letters-forum-group-thread#latest

Trainerman

Tapluk3 said:

Hi i have just joined and do not know how to post on here and ask for advice, i am a female in my 70's and need some advice if anyone can help please, it concerns 2 pcn's 5 years 5 months ago, Ukpc and Dcb Legal and have had a county court claim against me, thankyou Sandra

Start your own thread and you WILL get help. I think to do that, it is the big red button top left with "create post"

conabb

Hi all, I have received the images from the parking fine. The fine is for "not parked correctly within the markings of the bay". I suspect I am between two bays however, there is nothing there to suggest you cannot park there. Would this constitute a defence. 
I have included image links below
hxxps://imgur.com/5lZqvCl
hxxps://imgur.com/ljTNx5W
hxxps://imgur.com/d5grWdd

I cant believe how brazen they are at scamming folk! 

Le_Kirk

Your links made live: -

https://imgur.com/5lZqvCl
https://imgur.com/ljTNx5W
https://imgur.com/d5grWdd

conabb

I have added an extract of my defence below. I have also included the images as part of my defence to illustrate Para 8. Unsure if that is actually allowed and will be presented from the prosecution?

2.       It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper of the vehicle in question, but liability is denied. It is further denied that the Defendant was the driver of the vehicle.

3.      Due to the length of time, the Defendant has little to no recollection of the days in question, which were unremarkable. The identity of the driver at the material time is unknown to the Defendant. The Defendant was not the only insured driver of the vehicle in question and is unable to recall who was or was not driving on that unremarkable day over 5 years ago. It would not be reasonable to expect a registered keeper to be able to recall the potential driver(s) of the car some years later. In any case, there is no such obligation in law and this was confirmed in the POPLA Annual Report 2015 by parking expert barrister and Lead Adjudicator, Henry Greenslade, who also clarified the fact that registered keeper can only be held liable under the POFA Schedule 4 and not by presumption or any other legal argument.

4.      The Defendant was issued with a Claim Form by DCB Legal Limited acting on behalf of the UK Parking Control Limited for a Total amount of £256.57 (inclusive of £35 Court Fee & £50 Legal representative's costs) to an £60 Parking Charge Notice (‘PCN’). Through research the Defendant has come to understand that this relates to a PCN that was issued against the Defendant’s vehicle XXXXX almost 5 years ago on 24 February 2017 at MetroCentre, Gateshead, NE11 9GY.

5.      In the Particulars of Claim ('POC') it is stated that the Defendant is liable as the driver or keeper but the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence that Defendant was also the driver. The Defendant cannot be held liable for the charges as the keeper of the vehicle. 

6.      Claimant has included a clear falsehood in their POC which were signed under a statement of truth by the Claimant's legal representative who should know (as the Claimant undoubtedly does) that it is untrue to state that the Defendant is 'liable as keeper'.  Not only does the POC include this misleading untruth, but the Claimant has also added an unidentified sum in false 'damages' to enhance the claims.  So sparse is their statement of case, that the Claimant has failed to even state any facts about the alleged breach or the amount of the parking charge that was on the signage, because it cannot have been over £100. Which then leads to the question, how does the Claimant arrive at the Amount Claimed for a Total of £171.57. The Defendant has excluded the £35 Court Fee & £50 Legal representative's costs from the Total amount for the purposes of this defence point.

7.      The Parking and Traffic Appeals Service (PATAS) and Parking on Private Land Appeals (POPLA) Lead Adjudicator and barrister, Henry Michael Greenslade, clarified that with regards to keeper liability, “There is no ‘reasonable presumption’ in law that the registered keeper of a vehicle is the driver and the operators should never suggest anything of the sort” (POPLA report 2015). 

8.      The signage included in the parking areas is very unclear and difficult to read. There is no mention on the parking bay in question that this is not in fact a parking bay. Traffic lines are painted on either side of the bay the vehicle is parked in. The only visible description on the signage at the carpark is to “Park only within marked bays. No Roadway Parking” and “No parking on yellow lines or in an area with Hatched markings”. As below, the vehicle is in fact parked within marked bays, not on the roadway or parked on yellow/ hatched markings. Therefore, the vehicle is parked in compliance with the signage of the car park. Despite the poorly placed signage, the Claimant relies upon such to illustrate the terms and conditions of the car park. Evidentially the vehicle sits within such designated bays, not parking on yellow lines or parked on hatched markings. Thus, no breach of said contract exists.   

Coupon-mad

"the prosecution"...

Who?!