Private car sale, buyer asking for their money back (U.K. Sale)

Grumpy_chap

[Deleted User] said:

"Not as described" doesn't cover private sales anyway then. 

According to this, it does:
https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights-aAnMC5b0ZzJb

Must be accurately described and not misrepresented.

caprikid1

Grumpy_chap is correct, vehicle must not knowingly be mis-described. 

Always an uphill battle on a private sale though to achieve rejection.

Jje1

Thanks again…the car was not misdescribed…..as previous posts reasonable description was provided (it was advertised as relacquered with defects that would need machine polishing to remove) so on this point the buyer has no claim after declaring that the marks will remove with machine polishing but doesn’t want to …..and the wing line was not described in any way and over 50 photos of the car provided for the buyer to assess overall condition and visual appearance.

the claim the wing was replaced is simply an assertion and there is no evidence what so ever that the wing has been replaced…in fact here is extensive evidence to show the wing is (beyond any reasonable doubt) the original wing and the line misalignment is typically the period build quality .

so given all that’s said I see no grounds for claiming misadvertising.


if I’d said the paint was original and flawless I get it…..if I said all the panel alignments are perfect I get it…neither of these were said though.

caprikid1

"the claim the wing was replaced is simply an assertion and there is no evidence what so ever that the wing has been replaced…in fact here is extensive evidence to show the wing is (beyond any reasonable doubt) the original wing and the line misalignment is typically the period build quality ."

Unless you stated original panels it matters not whether it was changed or not really. If you are looking for that levels of perfection you need to be viewing the car and take an expert with you or agree to purchase subject to a third party evaluation.

Its a crappy old fwd ford not an XK120 Jaguar for £200K.

Grumpy_chap

I think it is clear now that this was a private sale and the advert acceptable.

The best thing for the OP is a single response that is kept short and factual to respond to the buyer.  Conclude by making it clear that there is no intention to engage further - then block and ignore.

The more the OP says to the buyer by way of any justifications, the more harm that can be done and little chance of any gain.  Really a case of "less is more".

jimjames

Jje1 said:

Is it worth me adding that I believe the advert, correspondence, photos, messages and phone calls all leading to the purchase are classed as the description….if so I am in no doubt what so ever that I have described the car to the best of my ability (again I am not a trader, mechanic, car or paint specialist) I am simply a guy who bought a car, did a bit of work to take it to some shows and has had to sell through I’ll health.

If he had any concerns which required that amount of correspondence then there is no way I'd buy a car like that without viewing. I've had quite a few classics and it's to be expected that there will be imperfections. My current car is 23 years old but I've had older MK2 Golf GTI a few years ago and the look in a photo isn't always representative of the condition - both positive and negative.

It's also worth highlighting that unlike most posts here about refunds on a car sold privately there is absolutely no suggestion that there is anything mechanically wrong with the car. It only seems to be paintwork on a car over 30 years old that they are worried about which I think would also be viewed poorly if it ever came to court. If you were that concerned about the finish then you'd view it regardless of distance.

NBLondon

Sounds like the buyer has suddenly realised they need the money for something else and is going for a refund rather than sell the car on and take a hit.  The description sounds fair given the OP is not a dealer or professional restorer.

Jenni_D

[Deleted User] said:

Jje1 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Jje1 said:

10 days ago I sold a 32 year old classic Ford car privately following an advert on eBay and now the buyer wants to return the car and get their money back.

The buyer contacted me through eBay and we concluded the car sale outside of eBay after a large amount of further conversations, WhatsApp discussions, 28 minute phone call, 50 photos (some at request of the buyer) and they buyer also taking professional advice prior buying.   At this point I’d like to add that the buyer was invited on multiple occasions to view the car but chose not to, paid for the car and had a firm collect the vehicle.

The buyer is now stating they want a refund as the car is not as described on 2 points below:

1. Marks in the paint / varying shinyness of the paint
2. A swage line not being “acceptably aligned” (it’s 3mm out on one line) between the door and front wing.

I have declined the return on the basis that these were suitably covered in the advert, messages, photographs and telephone call discussion, to which he has conceded in messages that, had he viewed, he would not have bought the car and had assumed the two items were ok.

On point 1) the fact the car had been relacquered was in the original advert and further clarified that there is some orange peel and also a few defects in the top coat that would likely machine polish out with a few example photos provided.  At no point does the advert say original mint condition unblemished flawless paintwork. He has conceded that the majority will polish out as I’d said prior to purchase, but now he doesn’t want to spend the money - note I accepted over £1000 less following him taking advice on the photos prior to purchase from a paint specialist.

On point 2) extensive photos were provided and no claim was made in regard to panel fit of individual swage line alignment (nor was it a noticeable issue), this was the purpose of extensive photos - I would also not class 3mm to be untypical of period build quality by Ford and have multiple photos of other cars with the same swage line mismatch. The buyer never entered any conversation on panel fit nor requested detailed description of panel fit. He is also alluding that it must have had the wing replaced as a result of a bump at some point and that the wing has no date stamp on it.  There is no history of the car having an accident, no MOT history detailing the need for wing replacement and no receipts in an extensive history file of any panel work.  The car is a 1 owner 31k mile car and the panel fit under the bonnet is commensurate with a factory fit panel including original paint and sealant.  Further coms with members of the Ford owners club have confirmed that not all cars had date stamps so you cannot assume no date stamp = panel replacement. The buyer has also removed a taped pinstripe down the side of the car exacerbating the situation as the only visual reference is now a swage line previously detracted by the existence of a pinstripe previously…so it could also be offered up that he has since modified the car and created the concern.

All the above messages, photos and adverts and telephone call instances I have saved.

He is now threatening its not as described and will take legal action…

Thoughts appreciated 

For absolute clarity, is this a private sale or are you operating as a motor trader?

It is just some parts of your post seem to talk of the car as a vehicle of which you have limited knowledge but then you say it is a 1-owner car.  I have highlighted a clear example of the apparent discrepancy.  You say "no history" of this, that and the other but if you were a genuine private seller of a one-owner car, you would not have to rely on "no history" but would be more definitive "the car has never been in any accident".

If you sold as a Trader and this was a true remote purchase, then the buyer may be able to return for any reason or none.

What was the reason you took the sale outside of EBay?

Sorry yes to be clear it’s a private sale, it went outside eBay as the advert expired on eBay but we kept communicating.  It’s a 1 previous owner car prior to me (apologies that’s what I meant)

thanks

"Not as described" doesn't cover private sales anyway then. Basically they have no leg to stand on. Block them, move on.

As others have replied, yes it does. For any private sale there are only two things that legally matter (putting aside any roadworthiness aspect that applies only for vehicles):

• You have good title to sell the goods
• You have not mis-described the goods

As long as the OP is clear in these respects (and it seems he is) then the buyer has a difficult case to prove.

motorguy

NBLondon said:

Sounds like the buyer has suddenly realised they need the money for something else and is going for a refund rather than sell the car on and take a hit.  The description sounds fair given the OP is not a dealer or professional restorer.

Buyers remorse indeed.