Switched to Universal Credit and worse off.

becky004

Long post so sorry in advance. Prior to October 2021 I was receiving £674.80 ESA (with severe disability premium) and £270.40 Carers Allowance (for my disabled son) every 4 weeks, so £945.20, or £236.30 a week to live off. I also receive PIP, enhanced for both elements, not including that in the equasion as that remains the same.

Change in circumstances, son turned 18 (my relationship with his dad had broken down in 2006, it was agreed I would remain in family home until he was 18, another long story not relevant here), my son and I move into Local Authority housing and am told I now need to change from ESA to UC, but I won't be worse off and may be a little better off, but I am £100's worse off!  Every month I receive the Standard Allowance £324.84, LCWRA £343.63, and rent £436.72 so £1105.19, plus for some reason I was receiving ESA of £72.56 a month.

However they are deducting, £292.93 for Carers Allowance, £201.50 for ESA, and £58.34 for the advance payment leaving £552.42 a month, I have to pay my rent of £480 a month out of this, leaving £72.42 a month, plus £270.40 Carers Allowance and the £72.56 ESA(now stopped), so £415.38 a month with ESA stopped this becomes £342.82 a month changing to £401.16 a month when advance payment cleared, so £100.29 a week a loss of almost 60%!

I contacted ESA to ask why I was still receiving a payment when I was now claiming UC, the lady said I was entitled to it as it was the contributary element as I had paid National Insurance for so many years, but the amount is low at £72.56 a month as they are deducting Carers Allowance from it. The lady advised I cancel the ESA claim as it is interfering with UC, so I did, she couldn't explain why £201.50 was being deducted from UC for a £72.56 ESA payment though.

Contacted UC they claim my award is correct, am not entitled to transitional protection for the severe disability premium I had received through ESA, as I wasn't migrated I claimed due to a change in circumstances. Am not entitled to the carers element of UC as I receive the LCWRA element, until they receive notification from ESA that I have cancelled my claim they will continue to deduct ESA, despite the fact the amount they are deducting is almost 2/3 more than I actually received! 

Am almost £545 a month worse off, is this correct? If so I would have been better off not claiming UC and just paying my rent out of my ESA as I would have been on £116.30 a week if I had done that. Whoever takes the time to read this am sorry it's confusing, am so confused myself just reading it back!

poppy12345

Who told you that you wouldn't be worse off? That's not quite correct and you would have been a little worse off by claiming UC.

When you claimed UC were you still receiving the SDP in with your ESA or did that stop because your son was no longer in full time none advanced education?

I also note that there's no child element in with your UC calculation so has your son now left full time education?

I'm sure someone will do a calculation once you answer those questions.

becky004

poppy12345 said:

Who told you that you wouldn't be worse off? That's not quite correct and you would have been a little worse off by claiming UC.

When you claimed UC were you still receiving the SDP in with your ESA or did that stop because your son was no longer in full time none advanced education?

I also note that there's no child element in with your UC calculation so has your son now left full time education?

I'm sure someone will do a calculation once you answer those questions.

Thank you for replying, the lady from the Local Authority told me I had to claim UC in order to get housing paid for and that I wouldn;t be worse off. Yes, have received SDP with my ESA since I went on ESA in 2010, it didn't stop when my son left education in September 2021. Should it have? Although 18 he has many disabilities and receives PIP in his own right (enhanced for both). No child element with UC, I know I am not entitled to that as he is in no form of education now. Everything else stopped in September, Child Tax Credits, Child Benefit he claims UC at Standard Rate in his own name with me as his appointee.

calcotti

becky004 said: the lady from the Local Authority told me I had to claim UC in order to get housing paid for ..

If yu did not already have a Housing Benefit claim in the same local authority that is correct. If you did the advice was incorrect.

Were you previously claiming Housing Benefit and was it with the same local authority?

becky004 said:..and that I wouldn;t be worse off. 

Unless she did a full benefit check for you that was irresponsible as she would have no way of knowing.

becky004 said:

The lady advised I cancel the ESA claim as it is interfering with UC, so I did, she couldn't explain why £201.50 was being deducted from UC for a £72.56 ESA payment though.

That was poor advice in my opinion. The problem isn’t the ESA itself, rather that the ESA amounts and UC deductions didn’t match. However it is now done.

becky004 said: but the amount is low at £72.56 a month as they are deducting Carers Allowance from it. The lady advised I cancel the ESA claim as it is interfering with UC, so I did, she couldn't explain why £201.50 was being deducted from UC for a £72.56 ESA payment though.

This ESA payment doesn’t look right. If you are in the Support Group your contribution based ESA is worth £114.10/week. Deduct CA of £67.60 = £46.50/week which would be £93/fortnight. That is equivalent £201.50/month. The UC deduction therefore looks correct.

becky004 said:

Contacted UC they claim my award is correct, am not entitled to transitional protection for the severe disability premium I had received through ESA, as I wasn't migrated I claimed due to a change in circumstances. 

That is not correct. If your ESA contained the SDP at the time you claimed UC and if you still met the conditions for SDP then you are entitled to the transitional element. That would be an extra £120/month.

becky004 said: Am not entitled to the carers element of UC as I receive the LCWRA element, 

That is correct.

becky004 said:.. until they receive notification from ESA that I have cancelled my claim they will continue to deduct ESA, despite the fact the amount they are deducting is almost 2/3 more than I actually received!

Without doing a full benefit calculation it is impossible to say how the figures stack up. If you ignore the rent then it is possible you are worse off on UC but if the only way to get help with rent was by claiming UC then it is unlikely (but not impossible) that you would be worse off on UC compared to staying on UC with no rent support.

Obviously the amount of UC you are getting is reduced because you took an advance payment.

In working out the figures you I think you are may be mixing up monthly and 4 weekly amounts. So, for example, you get £270.40 CA every 4 weeks, this is equivalent to £292.93/month which is what UC deduct (weekly amount x 52 / 12). 

You had £236.30/week of ESA and CA. If we remove the ESA deduction and add the SDP element your maximum UC and CA combined will, by my calculation, be £1225.19/month equivalent to £282.73/week but until the advance has been paid off the amount you receive will obviously be reduced by the loan repayment.

The two issues that are incorrect are lack of SDP transitional element which you need to go back to UC about and I question whether your ESA payments were correct. You should ask UC for a Mandatory Reconsideration of the decision that you are not entitled to the SDP transition element.

poppy12345

You would have been slightly worse off anyway because when you were claiming ESA you were also receiving the Carers Premium. When claiming UC and LCWRA you can't be paid the carers element at the same time, so that will make you worse off before you start.

Alice_Holt

Just to reinforce  Calcotti's point...
    "That is not correct. If your ESA contained the SDP at the time you claimed UC and if you still met the conditions for SDP then you are entitled to the transitional element. That would be an extra £120/month."

https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/Universal-Credit-transitional-protection/What-is-Universal-Credit-transitional-protection

"Transitional protection is only available to .... people:

• People who were getting Severe Disability Premium at the time they claimed Universal Credit."

  This is what you need to raise with UC.  Do this via a written mandatory reconsideration request, and see if your local advice agency can help you:
  https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/universal-credit/problems-with-your-payment/challenging-a-universal-credit-decision-mandatory-consideration/
 https://www.gov.uk/mandatory-reconsideration


Also make sure the UC deductions for ESA are correct (due to the potential complication between ESA and CA - and the differing payment periods). 

calcotti

You say your son gets standard allowance UC. Have you reported his health conditions and you you waiting for a health assessment for him?

calcotti

Alice_Holt said: Also make sure the deductions for ESA are correct (due to the potential complication between ESA and CA). 

It’s the ESA payments that look incorrect, the UC deduction is what I would expect given what OP has said as explained in my post (which I was probably editing when you posted).

calcotti

When you challenge the SDP decision you can refer to
Legislation
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2021/4/made
and DWP guidance here
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1039868/admm6.pdf
See paragraph M6710 onwards.

becky004

It looks like my third post has disappeared! Will go through comments one by one, and thank you all for replying. Until October 2021 had no claim for housing (mortgaged property had SMI all paid back now).

"This ESA payment doesn’t look right. If you are in the Support Group your contribution based ESA is worth £114.10/week. Deduct CA of £67.60 = £46.50/week which would be £93/fortnight. That is equivalent £201.50/month. The UC deduction therefore looks correct."

I am in Support Group, ESA was being paid at £36.28 a fortnight not £93, also how can ESA take £67.60 a week off me, and UC take £67.60 a week off me, was being penalised twice for the Carers Allowance.

I have included the advance payment in my figures as I will receive £58.34 a month more once that is cleared.

I am useless with maths but get the monthly/weekly difference because it's now same day every month, not a 4 week calculation.

"You say your son gets standard allowance UC. Have you reported his health conditions and you you waiting for a health assessment for him?" 

They are aware of his health conditions, I had to submit a fit note for his initial claim, then after first one they said they didn't need another. As his appointee was then sent a medical questionnaire to me, they said he probably wouldn't need a face to face health assessment as his problems have been documented since birth, and that I would be contacted in due course, that was beginning of September 2021 he is still on standard allowance.

poppy12345

You are not being penalised twice by the carers allowance being deducted from both the ESA and UC. There's no overall financial gain to claiming either of them together.

The way they calculated your ESA is incorrect and calcotti's calculation is correct.

Put a note onto your journal to ask about the SDP transitional element, as advised. Do be aware though that this erodes over time so if other elements increase the SDP element decreases.