Greater Manchester congestion charge - disguised as clean air improvements

tonyeccles

So because it doesn't have an effect on me personally I cannot have an opinion? I think I am done here. Happy Christmas

motorguy

tonyeccles said:

So because it doesn't have an effect on me personally I cannot have an opinion? I think I am done here. Happy Christmas

You're entitled to your opinion, of course.  

Everyone has said why its happening, the support they're putting in to place, and the actions businesses will need to take to adapt.

You dont seem to be able to accept that, and continue to be outraged by something you cant stop and that - apparently - doesnt directly affect you anyway.

And of course, because i have a different view to you, then i must work for "the council".

Sorry we didnt the responses you were hoping for and you feel you have to flounce off.

Best Wishes and Happy Christmas.

tonyeccles

"flounce off" "no particular reason" -
I left because I didn't want to listen to any more change management seminars - and I set the discussion in motion and could not contribute anymore. Plus, my aim was to warn the THOUSANDS of people who are not aware of the impending changes, despite what has been said.
NOBODY has answered how those who WILL be affected and do not possess the resources to be able to adapt will be catered for - because they won't be. One-man-bands, trades people and people who are contracted to distribution companies are already being squeezed, in the name of the environment.
There are also people who have vans and pick-ups as cars. And the staycationers with the VW's. None of them are able to recieve a penny in funding.
Caring about poorer people losing out under a labour council IS a "particular reason".
Time to flounce off. TTFN

motorguy

tonyeccles said:

"flounce off" "no particular reason" -
I left because I didn't want to listen to any more change management seminars - and I set the discussion in motion and could not contribute anymore. Plus, my aim was to warn the THOUSANDS of people who are not aware of the impending changes, despite what has been said.
NOBODY has answered how those who WILL be affected and do not possess the resources to be able to adapt will be catered for - because they won't be. One-man-bands, trades people and people who are contracted to distribution companies are already being squeezed, in the name of the environment.
There are also people who have vans and pick-ups as cars. And the staycationers with the VW's. None of them are able to recieve a penny in funding.
Caring about poorer people losing out under a labour council IS a "particular reason".
Time to flounce off. TTFN

and yet....

Herzlos

tonyeccles said:

NOBODY has answered how those who WILL be affected and do not possess the resources to be able to adapt will be catered for - because they won't be. One-man-bands, trades people and people who are contracted to distribution companies are already being squeezed, in the name of the environment.

The ones who can't get exemptions and can't afford to absorb/pass on the charge* will need to go elsewhere. Go shopping in another city or whatever.

Sure there will be some folk get screwed over, which unfortunately is life. But is it worth it for cleaner air? Many people will think so.
As has been said, many people won't change with a carrot so a stick is needed and this should be enough to get people to reconsider the trip or the vehicle without ruining many people. Drive to the outskirts and cycle in, use a park and ride, visit less often, shop elsewhere, etc.

The other options is to do nothing and deal with the poor air quality.

IIRC they were looking at introducing similar in Edinburgh, but the restrictions weren't actually that bad in reality. London hasn't turned into a wasteland. I don't see why it'd be the end of the world for Manchester

*The charge is daily, right? So a taxi crossing the threshold 20 times will still only pay £10 at an effective rate at 50p/visit?

DrEskimo

tonyeccles said:

"flounce off" "no particular reason" -
I left because I didn't want to listen to any more change management seminars - and I set the discussion in motion and could not contribute anymore. Plus, my aim was to warn the THOUSANDS of people who are not aware of the impending changes, despite what has been said.
NOBODY has answered how those who WILL be affected and do not possess the resources to be able to adapt will be catered for - because they won't be. One-man-bands, trades people and people who are contracted to distribution companies are already being squeezed, in the name of the environment.
There are also people who have vans and pick-ups as cars. And the staycationers with the VW's. None of them are able to recieve a penny in funding.
Caring about poorer people losing out under a labour council IS a "particular reason".
Time to flounce off. TTFN

Unless I'm missing something, @motorguy's first post on the first page has a link about how people affected could get financial support. You completely ignored it. Like you completely ignored comments that this is unlikely as a direct result of the local authority in the first place.....

Almost seems like you have an agenda....

tonyeccles

DrEskimo said:

tonyeccles said:

"flounce off" "no particular reason" -
I left because I didn't want to listen to any more change management seminars - and I set the discussion in motion and could not contribute anymore. Plus, my aim was to warn the THOUSANDS of people who are not aware of the impending changes, despite what has been said.
NOBODY has answered how those who WILL be affected and do not possess the resources to be able to adapt will be catered for - because they won't be. One-man-bands, trades people and people who are contracted to distribution companies are already being squeezed, in the name of the environment.
There are also people who have vans and pick-ups as cars. And the staycationers with the VW's. None of them are able to recieve a penny in funding.
Caring about poorer people losing out under a labour council IS a "particular reason".
Time to flounce off. TTFN

Unless I'm missing something, @motorguy's first post on the first page has a link about how people affected could get financial support. You completely ignored it. Like you completely ignored comments that this is unlikely as a direct result of the local authority in the first place.....

Almost seems like you have an agenda....

The only word you used that was worth reading was "could". Herzlos said:

tonyeccles said:

NOBODY has answered how those who WILL be affected and do not possess the resources to be able to adapt will be catered for - because they won't be. One-man-bands, trades people and people who are contracted to distribution companies are already being squeezed, in the name of the environment.

The ones who can't get exemptions and can't afford to absorb/pass on the charge* will need to go elsewhere. Go shopping in another city or whatever.

Sure there will be some folk get screwed over, which unfortunately is life. But is it worth it for cleaner air? Many people will think so.
As has been said, many people won't change with a carrot so a stick is needed and this should be enough to get people to reconsider the trip or the vehicle without ruining many people. Drive to the outskirts and cycle in, use a park and ride, visit less often, shop elsewhere, etc.

The other options is to do nothing and deal with the poor air quality.

IIRC they were looking at introducing similar in Edinburgh, but the restrictions weren't actually that bad in reality. London hasn't turned into a wasteland. I don't see why it'd be the end of the world for Manchester

*The charge is daily, right? So a taxi crossing the threshold 20 times will still only pay £10 at an effective rate at 50p/visit?

Which City are you referring to? THIS is what you do not seem to be grasping. 
It is NOT A CITY - IT IS A COUNTY.
Edinburgh is a City, Leeds is a City
It is NOT Manchester. It is GREATER Manchester.
So which outskirt do you propose people should drive to? Merseyside? Lancashire?
And cycle to which City within the COUNTY? All of them?
For the final time - I WOULD NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH A CITY CHARGE. 
Now, Happy Christmas, or Seasons Greetings 

motorguy

tonyeccles said:

DrEskimo said:

tonyeccles said:

"flounce off" "no particular reason" -
I left because I didn't want to listen to any more change management seminars - and I set the discussion in motion and could not contribute anymore. Plus, my aim was to warn the THOUSANDS of people who are not aware of the impending changes, despite what has been said.
NOBODY has answered how those who WILL be affected and do not possess the resources to be able to adapt will be catered for - because they won't be. One-man-bands, trades people and people who are contracted to distribution companies are already being squeezed, in the name of the environment.
There are also people who have vans and pick-ups as cars. And the staycationers with the VW's. None of them are able to recieve a penny in funding.
Caring about poorer people losing out under a labour council IS a "particular reason".
Time to flounce off. TTFN

Unless I'm missing something, @motorguy's first post on the first page has a link about how people affected could get financial support. You completely ignored it. Like you completely ignored comments that this is unlikely as a direct result of the local authority in the first place.....

Almost seems like you have an agenda....

The only word you used that was worth reading was "could". Herzlos said:

tonyeccles said:

NOBODY has answered how those who WILL be affected and do not possess the resources to be able to adapt will be catered for - because they won't be. One-man-bands, trades people and people who are contracted to distribution companies are already being squeezed, in the name of the environment.

The ones who can't get exemptions and can't afford to absorb/pass on the charge* will need to go elsewhere. Go shopping in another city or whatever.

Sure there will be some folk get screwed over, which unfortunately is life. But is it worth it for cleaner air? Many people will think so.
As has been said, many people won't change with a carrot so a stick is needed and this should be enough to get people to reconsider the trip or the vehicle without ruining many people. Drive to the outskirts and cycle in, use a park and ride, visit less often, shop elsewhere, etc.

The other options is to do nothing and deal with the poor air quality.

IIRC they were looking at introducing similar in Edinburgh, but the restrictions weren't actually that bad in reality. London hasn't turned into a wasteland. I don't see why it'd be the end of the world for Manchester

*The charge is daily, right? So a taxi crossing the threshold 20 times will still only pay £10 at an effective rate at 50p/visit?

Which City are you referring to? THIS is what you do not seem to be grasping. 
It is NOT A CITY - IT IS A COUNTY.
Edinburgh is a City, Leeds is a City
It is NOT Manchester. It is GREATER Manchester.
So which outskirt do you propose people should drive to? Merseyside? Lancashire?
And cycle to which City within the COUNTY? All of them?
For the final time - I WOULD NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH A CITY CHARGE. 
Now, Happy Christmas, or Seasons Greetings 

So is the London charge just the City of London then?

zagfles

tonyeccles said:

DrEskimo said:

tonyeccles said:

"flounce off" "no particular reason" -
I left because I didn't want to listen to any more change management seminars - and I set the discussion in motion and could not contribute anymore. Plus, my aim was to warn the THOUSANDS of people who are not aware of the impending changes, despite what has been said.
NOBODY has answered how those who WILL be affected and do not possess the resources to be able to adapt will be catered for - because they won't be. One-man-bands, trades people and people who are contracted to distribution companies are already being squeezed, in the name of the environment.
There are also people who have vans and pick-ups as cars. And the staycationers with the VW's. None of them are able to recieve a penny in funding.
Caring about poorer people losing out under a labour council IS a "particular reason".
Time to flounce off. TTFN

Unless I'm missing something, @motorguy's first post on the first page has a link about how people affected could get financial support. You completely ignored it. Like you completely ignored comments that this is unlikely as a direct result of the local authority in the first place.....

Almost seems like you have an agenda....

The only word you used that was worth reading was "could". Herzlos said:

tonyeccles said:

NOBODY has answered how those who WILL be affected and do not possess the resources to be able to adapt will be catered for - because they won't be. One-man-bands, trades people and people who are contracted to distribution companies are already being squeezed, in the name of the environment.

The ones who can't get exemptions and can't afford to absorb/pass on the charge* will need to go elsewhere. Go shopping in another city or whatever.

Sure there will be some folk get screwed over, which unfortunately is life. But is it worth it for cleaner air? Many people will think so.
As has been said, many people won't change with a carrot so a stick is needed and this should be enough to get people to reconsider the trip or the vehicle without ruining many people. Drive to the outskirts and cycle in, use a park and ride, visit less often, shop elsewhere, etc.

The other options is to do nothing and deal with the poor air quality.

IIRC they were looking at introducing similar in Edinburgh, but the restrictions weren't actually that bad in reality. London hasn't turned into a wasteland. I don't see why it'd be the end of the world for Manchester

*The charge is daily, right? So a taxi crossing the threshold 20 times will still only pay £10 at an effective rate at 50p/visit?

Which City are you referring to? THIS is what you do not seem to be grasping. 
It is NOT A CITY - IT IS A COUNTY.
Edinburgh is a City, Leeds is a City
It is NOT Manchester. It is GREATER Manchester.
So which outskirt do you propose people should drive to? Merseyside? Lancashire?
And cycle to which City within the COUNTY? All of them?
For the final time - I WOULD NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH A CITY CHARGE. 
Now, Happy Christmas, or Seasons Greetings 

So you'd be happy with a charge that applies in Wythenshawe, which is in the City of Manchester but about 7 miles from the city centre, but not in Salford, about half a mile from the city centre

The City of Manchester boundaries would be completely nonsensical as a boundary for clean air regulations. You just need to look at a map to realise that. Probably the most sensible boundary would be "inside the M60"

plumb1_2

Herzlos said:

 

The ones who can't get exemptions and can't afford to absorb/pass on the charge* will need to go elsewhere. Go shopping in another city or whatever.

I live approx 18 miles away from Manchester City Center and will get hit with the £10 daily charge.
There is a anpr camera 800 meters from my house and pass it every day..
So how  do I go to another city/town without passing the camera.
There is no financial help for private individuals who have a small van for private use, unless they have owned the vehicle over 12 months.
All households should have received a booklet about the changes when this got the go ahead, but received nowt.