Greater Manchester congestion charge - disguised as clean air improvements

tonyeccles

motorguy said:

tonyeccles said:

I know it doesn't affect cars, but it does affect those with small vans who have SMALLER, CLEANER engines than cars.
The army of white van men who kept the country going through the lockdowns WILL be affected. Many of the vans cannot be adapted - even those just a few years old.
And the funding assistance is VERY limited.
Unlucky for those who can only afford "staycations" and have got cheap VW-type camper conversions.

Well like many then they'll have to factor in the charge to their daily rate, or add it specifically on.

Taxi drivers add it on if they're going in to a congestion zone.  

Its not like people wont know about the charge and understand why it has to be factored in.

Yes, we could go down the whataboutisms to the 10th degree here but as has always been the case, businesses will have to adapt.

So, costs just spiral up - leading to a rise in inflation and shop prices! Where does that end?
If the congestion zone was central Manchester, fair enough. We are talking about the WHOLE of Greater Manchester.

Ectophile

It isn't a congestion zone! It's a clean air zone. The purpose of this charge is to drive older, more polluting vehicles off the streets of Manchester.

Councils have a legal duty to clean up the air in their cities. This is how they are doing it.

daveyjp

Leeds hasn't been completely cancelled.  There is no charging in place as the air is cleaner than when the zone was proposed and Government have agreed a pause in its introduction.

Pollution monitoring has to be reported and if the pollution goes back up the charging will be introduced.

The ANPR cameras are still working and there has been an increase in cleaner vehicles entering the area.  One reason being the take up of grants for owners to upgrade vehicles, especially taxi and delivery drivers.

tonyeccles

Ectophile said:

It isn't a congestion zone! It's a clean air zone. The purpose of this charge is to drive older, more polluting vehicles off the streets of Manchester.

Councils have a legal duty to clean up the air in their cities. This is how they are doing it.

As I have said, if it was JUST Manchester, I would not have an issue. However, it is the WHOLE of Greater Manchester.

motorguy

tonyeccles said:

motorguy said:

tonyeccles said:

I know it doesn't affect cars, but it does affect those with small vans who have SMALLER, CLEANER engines than cars.
The army of white van men who kept the country going through the lockdowns WILL be affected. Many of the vans cannot be adapted - even those just a few years old.
And the funding assistance is VERY limited.
Unlucky for those who can only afford "staycations" and have got cheap VW-type camper conversions.

Well like many then they'll have to factor in the charge to their daily rate, or add it specifically on.

Taxi drivers add it on if they're going in to a congestion zone.  

Its not like people wont know about the charge and understand why it has to be factored in.

Yes, we could go down the whataboutisms to the 10th degree here but as has always been the case, businesses will have to adapt.

So, costs just spiral up - leading to a rise in inflation and shop prices! Where does that end?
If the congestion zone was central Manchester, fair enough. We are talking about the WHOLE of Greater Manchester.

Yes, thats life for a business.  Managing costs.

Its something they'll have to factor in - either in terms of getting their vehicle compliant / getting a compliant vehicle or factoring in the £10 a day to their overheads.

Its designed to reduce emissions and improve air quality.  Lets be honest, people really dont bother changing behaviours unless theres a stick involved.  This is now the stick.

Smart businesses will adapt, marginal ones wont survive.  As has always been the way.

I take it this personally affects you?  If so, i'd be looking at how you're going to facilitate it in your business (as i'm sure your competitors are at this very moment), rather than trying to get it stopped.

Goudy

It's the whole of Greater Manchester as the air quailty is poor across the area.

In fact the air quality index today in Manchester (72) is worse than Central London (67)
Even Stockport's air is worse (76).

sevenhills

Ectophile said:

It isn't a congestion zone! It's a clean air zone. The purpose of this charge is to drive older, more polluting vehicles off the streets of Manchester.

Councils have a legal duty to clean up the air in their cities. This is how they are doing it.

Instead of enforcing the MOT rules around exhaust fumes, or petitioning the government for stricter rules?

tonyeccles

motorguy said:

tonyeccles said:

motorguy said:

tonyeccles said:

I know it doesn't affect cars, but it does affect those with small vans who have SMALLER, CLEANER engines than cars.
The army of white van men who kept the country going through the lockdowns WILL be affected. Many of the vans cannot be adapted - even those just a few years old.
And the funding assistance is VERY limited.
Unlucky for those who can only afford "staycations" and have got cheap VW-type camper conversions.

Well like many then they'll have to factor in the charge to their daily rate, or add it specifically on.

Taxi drivers add it on if they're going in to a congestion zone.  

Its not like people wont know about the charge and understand why it has to be factored in.

Yes, we could go down the whataboutisms to the 10th degree here but as has always been the case, businesses will have to adapt.

So, costs just spiral up - leading to a rise in inflation and shop prices! Where does that end?
If the congestion zone was central Manchester, fair enough. We are talking about the WHOLE of Greater Manchester.

Yes, thats life for a business.  Managing costs.

Its something they'll have to factor in - either in terms of getting their vehicle compliant / getting a compliant vehicle or factoring in the £10 a day to their overheads.

Its designed to reduce emissions and improve air quality.  Lets be honest, people really dont bother changing behaviours unless theres a stick involved.  This is now the stick.

Smart businesses will adapt, marginal ones wont survive.  As has always been the way.

I take it this personally affects you?  If so, i'd be looking at how you're going to facilitate it in your business (as i'm sure your competitors are at this very moment), rather than trying to get it stopped.

Nope, No effect on me at all. You sound like you work for the council and are trying to justify it.

MacPingu1986

@sevenhills
 
Yes - because densely populated urban areas suffer worse air quality (due to traffic volumes) so additional measures over and above national MOT exhaust standards are being applied. 

The government *could* look at stricter national restrictions to apply in the future as you suggest (such as a national ban on older vehicles). Clean air zones with c£10 charges are the current way of thinking to change behaviour - government then monitors what effect this has on air quality and uses this to guide future measures and policy.

motorguy

tonyeccles said:

motorguy said:

tonyeccles said:

motorguy said:

tonyeccles said:

I know it doesn't affect cars, but it does affect those with small vans who have SMALLER, CLEANER engines than cars.
The army of white van men who kept the country going through the lockdowns WILL be affected. Many of the vans cannot be adapted - even those just a few years old.
And the funding assistance is VERY limited.
Unlucky for those who can only afford "staycations" and have got cheap VW-type camper conversions.

Well like many then they'll have to factor in the charge to their daily rate, or add it specifically on.

Taxi drivers add it on if they're going in to a congestion zone.  

Its not like people wont know about the charge and understand why it has to be factored in.

Yes, we could go down the whataboutisms to the 10th degree here but as has always been the case, businesses will have to adapt.

So, costs just spiral up - leading to a rise in inflation and shop prices! Where does that end?
If the congestion zone was central Manchester, fair enough. We are talking about the WHOLE of Greater Manchester.

Yes, thats life for a business.  Managing costs.

Its something they'll have to factor in - either in terms of getting their vehicle compliant / getting a compliant vehicle or factoring in the £10 a day to their overheads.

Its designed to reduce emissions and improve air quality.  Lets be honest, people really dont bother changing behaviours unless theres a stick involved.  This is now the stick.

Smart businesses will adapt, marginal ones wont survive.  As has always been the way.

I take it this personally affects you?  If so, i'd be looking at how you're going to facilitate it in your business (as i'm sure your competitors are at this very moment), rather than trying to get it stopped.

Nope, No effect on me at all. You sound like you work for the council and are trying to justify it.

Then why are you getting so upset and posting whataboutisms?

And no i dont work for the council.  However i do know that in business, adapting is key and in life i've found its not what life throws at you, its how you do with what life throws at you that gets you through.

I totally get that cities need to have cleaner air.  Sorry if that makes me "the enemy" to you.