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New heatstore storage heaters, display isn't coming on?

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  • Gerry1
    Gerry1 Posts: 10,848 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    QrizB said:
    Gerry1 said:
    Exactly what is the electrician going to do?  If he installs extra circuits and wires the NSHs correctly then all you have to do is to set the clock and programme the NSH with the times you want to be warm and the temperature the room should reach.
    However, it's far more likely that he will just change the NSHs to a single 24h supply, in which case you'll also need to be absolutely certain of the exact times that the E7 meter is recording usage at the cheaper rate, and you'll need to be equally certain that the NSH is set to charge within th cheap rate window.  You'll still need to set the clock, the comfort times and temperatures.
    If you get it wrong by making wrong assumptions or relying on the electrician, Octopus or the man in the moon and end up paying daytime rates (either the charging or with the convector boost) , you'll have needlessly high bills which will give you far more sleepless nights.
    They wired it, again (but now for real apparently) into the E7 supply and now I have to wait until that comes on, to program the bloody heaters.... And they said they should work but weren't sure... My bet is they won't at all, or only poorly because the fan won't be on to blow the hot air into the room?

    So they only have power at (currently) the E7 and the guys said I have to contact Octopus to arrange that it can be wired into the 24hr supply because they don't want to mess with the meter....

    Thoughts?
    My thought is that they simply won't work if they're only wired into the E7 supply. They need:
    • Ideally, both E7 and 24h supplies, or
    • If that's not possible, a permanent 24h supply and a very carefully programmed timer
    Having a single E7 supply they might warm up but they won't be able to give any heat out.
    And Octopus is nothing to do with it, all the changes need to be made at the Consumer Unit not the meter.
    Your electrician is really out of his or her depth, it seems.
    Presumably Octopus or the DNO would need to pull the sealed fuse to disconnect the supply, otherwise the electrician would have to work on live terminals when changing the heater circuit from the switched E7 circuit?  That's probably prohibited under Health & Safety regulations.
  • QrizB
    QrizB Posts: 18,312 Forumite
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    edited 6 January 2022 at 9:59PM
    Gerry1 said:
    QrizB said:
    My thought is that they simply won't work if they're only wired into the E7 supply. They need:
    • Ideally, both E7 and 24h supplies, or
    • If that's not possible, a permanent 24h supply and a very carefully programmed timer
    Having a single E7 supply they might warm up but they won't be able to give any heat out.
    And Octopus is nothing to do with it, all the changes need to be made at the Consumer Unit not the meter.
    Your electrician is really out of his or her depth, it seems.
    Presumably Octopus or the DNO would need to pull the sealed fuse to disconnect the supply, otherwise the electrician would have to work on live terminals when changing the heater circuit from the switched E7 circuit?  That's probably prohibited under Health & Safety regulations.
    I don't know why anyone would need to work live. There should be an E7 consumer unit just like the 24h one. Flip both main switches and move the storage heater circuit(s) from one to the other, then switch back on.
    Edit: here's a picture showing the wiring for an E7 hot water tank. Not perfect but it will do. Imagine the lower HW tank element is your storage heater.
    Shut off both main switches, remove the off-peak element supply cable from the E7 CU and wire it into an unused way of the 24H CU. No need to work live.
    N. Hampshire, he/him. Octopus Intelligent Go elec & Tracker gas / Vodafone BB / iD mobile. Ripple Kirk Hill member.
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  • coffeehound
    coffeehound Posts: 5,741 Forumite
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    I think in @roosaaliiee's situation it would be best to get the separate 24-hour supplies connected.  The boost heater is only 520 watts, the fan 11W and brain 0.5, so very little current required.  Are there ordinary mains sockets anywhere near the storage heaters, roosaalilee?  It should be possible for a competent sparky to connect to the ring main without needing to make changes at the meter/CU


  • Gerry1
    Gerry1 Posts: 10,848 Forumite
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    @roosaaliiee It's possible that this meter has a Boost facility where you can liven up the switched E7 circuits for up to an hour when they would not normally be on.  If so, this would enable you to program the timer, start charging and get some heat using the fan (and also the convector, using the control panel on the NSH).  You would of course be charged at the expensive day rate, it's not something for nothing !

  • Hi all.
    I've programmed them last night (and discovered that my nighttime tariff comes on at the random time of 00.07h) to see if they do anything. Like someone here said, yes they do get hot but I don't think they're heating the house to the temperature I set (20 degrees).  

    Gerry said: 'Presumably Octopus or the DNO would need to pull the sealed fuse to disconnect the supply, otherwise the electrician would have to work on live terminals when changing the heater circuit from the switched E7 circuit?  That's probably prohibited under Health & Safety regulations.'
    >> yes something like that I think.

    Coffeehound: 'I think in @roosaaliiee's situation it would be best to get the separate 24-hour supplies connected.  The boost heater is only 520 watts, the fan 11W and brain 0.5, so very little current required.  Are there ordinary mains sockets anywhere near the storage heaters, roosaalilee? '
    >> no there aren't really. One in the hallway where there are no sockets at all, in the other two rooms they're not near any. 

    I'm thinking my next steps:
    -contacting Heatstore to get a confirmation of this not being how the heaters are meant to be set up, so that I have something to show the landlord that's 'official'. 
    -contacting Octopus to see what they say re them needing to do whatever is needed with the meter to get the heaters on the 24h circuit
    > then contact the landlord again. 
  • Gerry1
    Gerry1 Posts: 10,848 Forumite
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    edited 7 January 2022 at 4:02PM
    I'm thinking my next steps:
    -contacting Heatstore to get a confirmation of this not being how the heaters are meant to be set up, so that I have something to show the landlord that's 'official'.
    > then contact the landlord again. 
    Absolutely no need to contact Heatstore, their manual gives full information.  The best solution (Two Mains Supplies) is shown on Page 16 and the inferior cheapskate solution (Single Mains Supply) is on Page 17.
    Unfortunately, at the moment you have neither fish nor fowl, nor do you have a competent electrician.
    Do take great care with the heater's programming, especially if you end up with the cheapskate solution (Single Mains Supply).  If it's wrong and they charge at peak rate or rely on the convector heater's daytime boost, you'll be hit with the big bills.
  • 'Unfortunately, at the moment you have neither fish nor fowl, nor do you have a competent electrician.'
    > chuckling. Yes that's it.

    I need someone 'official' to say that it's not done right, so I am backed up by a credible source, in writing,  and it's not just me saying that it's not done right. Hence Heatstore. 
    Done that so I'm waiting to see what the landlord will come up with.
  • tim_p
    tim_p Posts: 878 Forumite
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    Having ‘programmed’ it during the previous nights off-peak period, will it retain its settings into the next period?  I’d guess not. 
  • Gerry1
    Gerry1 Posts: 10,848 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 7 January 2022 at 4:46PM
    tim_p said:
    Having ‘programmed’ it during the previous nights off-peak period, will it retain its settings into the next period?  I’d guess not. 
    It has a 3.3V coin cell battery with a life > 5 years.   Otherwise a power cut would be problematic and be likely to cause higher bills.
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