Victorian bay window subsidence crack (1.3-3.7 mm); should I pull out?

mattheus

@greenface2 Did a level 3 survey. Had I not pointed to the bay window crack he would not have even mentioned it. Impossible to get any concrete response from him. I point blank asked him "is it me or does the brickwork on house front wall seem distorted?" -- to which he accuses me of giving a "leading question" and refused to give a straight answer. The closer I look at it the more the connection seems present between the sagging main front wall and bay crack on same vertical; which can't be caused by "differential movement" of foundations by definition. If both things are moving means there is subsidence throughout either due to geology or some kind of groundwater / groundmoisture anomaly.

stuart45

The deflection in the brickwork above the window is normally caused by the ends of a timber bressumer failing.
You need to know if it's been replaced. 
The brickwork under the bay doesn't support the brickwork above.

twopenny

Beautiful little house, you say it's in a good area.

Underpinning won't necessarily detract from the value if you have those two things going for it.

Do you have the funds and desire to deal with the work? Will it be worth your while as you'll be there for some time in which case it would definitely be worth it or are you planning on moving in the near future and wanting a profit. In that case it's a big gamble that I wouldn't say at the moment would be in your favour. Simply from the agrivation, money and that when we come out of the present predicament there are going to be big changes in where people might want to buy.

We don't know which way. At the moment properties in my rural area are ridiculously sky high as people move out of cities, I predict that as soon as they've experienced winter in the countryside and citys reopening 50% will be off. But even with the high prices people aren't being stupid about buying.

If you are prepared to get the underpinning done and probably the inside floor along with windows and doors it will be fabulous. It's been very neglected over a long period of time. Mending and care it will probably be fine as the other properties are. Seems unlikely that there is just one tiny spot in the road where it's a major problem underground.

If you can get to talk to a neighbour about it and it's history that may uncover a lot of things that will enlighten you.

Otherwise go for the one in a better state.

stuart45

Things I'd be looking at just going by the photo's.
On the roof you have a firewall each side, which can be a real pain. The houses each side have lead flashing, but your house has a sand/cement fillet which is not as good. Each side has had a re-roof as well. 
Check bay timber lintel has been replaced.
Check the large pane in the window isn't just 4mm glass.
The gutters seem to discharge into a drain on your property.
Has it been repointed with a sand/cement mortar. Weather cut and struck style is not as good as a flush joint finished with the churn brush in lime mortar.

greenface2

stuart45 said:

Things I'd be looking at just going by the photo's.
On the roof you have a firewall each side, which can be a real pain. The houses each side have lead flashing, but your house has a sand/cement fillet which is not as good. Each side has had a re-roof as well. 
Check bay timber lintel has been replaced.
Check the large pane in the window isn't just 4mm glass.
The gutters seem to discharge into a drain on your property.
Has it been repointed with a sand/cement mortar. Weather cut and struck style is not as good as a flush joint finished with the churn brush in lime mortar.

All above is great advice .the glass didn't even need to be 4mm when they were installed 3mm would have done .INSANE ,. If they're to be changed now 4mm toughened in all the lower ones in that bay (upstairs should be too ) but looks like they've thought about the fire regs upstairs new windows so probably could be . The downstairs bay are at earliest (newest) about 1975 with reclaimed leads 

mattheus

stuart45 said:

The deflection in the brickwork above the window is normally caused by the ends of a timber bressumer failing.
You need to know if it's been replaced. 
The brickwork under the bay doesn't support the brickwork above.

This does seem like a good explanation. Bressummer beam replacement seems to be around 9k. Would it straighten upper floor facade brickwork back into clean horizontal lines as well?

FreeBear

mattheus said:

stuart45 said:

The deflection in the brickwork above the window is normally caused by the ends of a timber bressumer failing.
You need to know if it's been replaced. 
The brickwork under the bay doesn't support the brickwork above.

This does seem like a good explanation. Bressummer beam replacement seems to be around 9k. Would it straighten upper floor facade brickwork back into clean horizontal lines as well?

Unlikely unless the brickwork was removed and rebuilt (preferably with a lime mortar).

stuart45

Agree with FreeBear, rebuilding is the way to straighten it out, although it's looks like a solid 9 inch wall so is a lot more work than a cavity wall. 
The new beam will stop any increase in deflection. There are examples worse than this with the frames distorted and roof sagging.
Most people leave the brickwork as it is in cases like your's. 
You need to talk to an SE really. In some cases a steel plate can be used each side of the beam, or resin used,

Rosa_Damascena

mattheus said:

@greenface2 Did a level 3 survey. Had I not pointed to the bay window crack he would not have even mentioned it. Impossible to get any concrete response from him. I point blank asked him "is it me or does the brickwork on house front wall seem distorted?" -- to which he accuses me of giving a "leading question" and refused to give a straight answer. The closer I look at it the more the connection seems present between the sagging main front wall and bay crack on same vertical; which can't be caused by "differential movement" of foundations by definition. If both things are moving means there is subsidence throughout either due to geology or some kind of groundwater / groundmoisture anomaly.

Doesn't sound like a brilliant surveyor to me. On a property like this you should be able to recoup more than the cost of the survey in faults that require correction. Having said the 30% you mooted is unrealistic.

mattheus

Rosa_Damascena said:

mattheus said:

@greenface2 Did a level 3 survey. Had I not pointed to the bay window crack he would not have even mentioned it. Impossible to get any concrete response from him. I point blank asked him "is it me or does the brickwork on house front wall seem distorted?" -- to which he accuses me of giving a "leading question" and refused to give a straight answer. The closer I look at it the more the connection seems present between the sagging main front wall and bay crack on same vertical; which can't be caused by "differential movement" of foundations by definition. If both things are moving means there is subsidence throughout either due to geology or some kind of groundwater / groundmoisture anomaly.

Doesn't sound like a brilliant surveyor to me. On a property like this you should be able to recoup more than the cost of the survey in faults that require correction. Having said the 30% you mooted is unrealistic.

Agree. I think getting 50k off (11%) is more realistic.