Potential Boundary Dispute/ Retaining Wall Ownership

Oxid8uk

My parents have owned a property since the late 1990's and up until now have had no issues with the neighbour to one side.

The houses were built around 1890 and between the two properties there is a boundary wall, which is also the retaining wall to her land (her property sits about 4 foot higher than my parents property).  The title deeds do not make any reference to this retaining wall and who owns it. My dad is of the opinion that she owns it as it is retaining her land, however she is maintaining that as the title deeds make no reference to the ownership of the wall then it is shared.

She also believes that the title plan is incorrect and she owns a small in-step into her side even though it forms the boundary line (and likely has done since the properties were built - it looks like it could have been where an outbuilding/privy to my parents house was which has been removed to create space in the yard as it is only small), however as this in-step is so small it is not shown on the title plans and the redline is straight from front to back.

My parents had an informal chat over the wall with her about 6 months ago and all went quiet. Then last week out of the blue they received a letter from her solicitor regarding the above matters.

My parents are looking to sell the property in the near future and are concerned that now they have received a solicitors letter this will now be classed as a dispute. Is this correct, or would it only be a dispute if my parents responded?

Also, any idea who might own the retaining wall if nothing is stated in either parties deeds?

TIA

user1977

You haven't told us what the letter says.

Oxid8uk

user1977 said:

You haven't told us what the letter says.

She is disputing that she solely owns the retaining wall and that the instep is hers not my parents....

user1977

So does the letter suggest something ought to happen?

thegreenone

It sounds as though she is looking to sell and the boundary has thrown up a problem.  Can your parents ask other neighbours which are their boundaries so you might get an idea.

I think it would need to be declared but if its just an issue of defining legal boundaries, I don't think it should be an issue to either her or your parents when selling.  In fact, it would make things easier to sell ------- if it's all agreed in a civil manner.

Brie

It's not a dispute if it is resolved.  

Mojisola

Oxid8uk said:

The title deeds do not make any reference to this retaining wall and who owns it. My dad is of the opinion that she owns it as it is retaining her land, however she is maintaining that as the title deeds make no reference to the ownership of the wall then it is shared.

This suggests that she is responsible.

"This position is different however when there is a retaining wall. It is generally accepted that the person whose land is retained by the wall is responsible for its repair and maintenance."

https://alwenajonesbright.co.uk/retaining-walls/

canaldumidi

This could develop into a dispute. Far better to resolve amicably. If the wall needs repair, why not go 50/50 on cost without actually determining any legal liability either way?

I don't fully understand the 'inset'. If the retaining boundary wall is straight, where is the inset she is claiming? On your parent's side presumably? Is she suggesting the wall should not be straight as per the Land Registry Plan, but should be re-built with a kink giving her this 'inset'?

But if things 'go legal' I think parents are going to need legal advice. Do they have LegalCover with their house insurance? Or perhaps via their employer or union?

My own very flimsy and unreliable understanding is that owership of the wall may not be the issue. The issue is that her land is higher than your parent's land, so either the wall, and/or her land/soil might fall onto your parent's land. In such a scenario I believe the owner of the higher land is responsible for retaining it (ie maintaining the retaining wall toprevent collapse on the lower neighbour's land).

I googled a bit (well - I duckducked!):

https://askingthelot.com/who-is-responsible-for-retaining-wall-uk/

https://alwenajonesbright.co.uk/retaining-walls/

http://www.boundary-problems.co.uk/boundary-problems/walls.html

Oxid8uk

Thanks for the replies so far.

It has all come about due to the land on the other side of her being bought and it flagging up a boundary issue, so it seems it has frightened her and so she is wanting to sort all her boundaries out, we don't think she is looking to sell. Her property is currently not registered but she is looking to do this, and in part of doing so has said she isn't going to register the cliff face behind hers and my parents property that she owns. It's as if she thinks if she doesn't register it she no longer owns it and has no responsibility for it! She has been having arguments with the council about it saying they own it but they have categorically said they don't.

It would be great to agree this in a civil way but unfortunately she isn't a civil person. She thinks she is always right and won't stop until she gets her way.

My parents do not want the hassle as they are in their 70's and my dad is unwell and it is causing him a lot of stress. I know some would just say to give her what she wants (which with the boundary line I think my parents would just say fine) but they don't want to agree to joint responsibility of maintaining the wall in case it puts off buyers (there is nothing wrong with it at the moment - no maintenance currently required).

It may not make much difference, but my parents will be selling it at auction as a tenanted property therefore such a dispute may not bother an investor, so understandably my parents don't want to have to start throwing money at this to sort it out it if it's not required.

Section62

Mojisola said:

Oxid8uk said:

The title deeds do not make any reference to this retaining wall and who owns it. My dad is of the opinion that she owns it as it is retaining her land, however she is maintaining that as the title deeds make no reference to the ownership of the wall then it is shared.

This suggests that she is responsible.

"This position is different however when there is a retaining wall. It is generally accepted that the person whose land is retained by the wall is responsible for its repair and maintenance."

https://alwenajonesbright.co.uk/retaining-walls/

Not necessarily so though.  As that article continues to say -

"There are some exceptions to this general position however if the landowner of the lower land to a retaining wall has excavated a way to his own land to provide a lower but level area or if the owner of the land on the lower part of the retained wall had undertaken repair works that can indicate they have assumed responsibility for maintaining that retained wall."

So the starting point is trying to work out who had the retaining wall built.  In my experience it is more common with older properties to find that the lower property was responsible for digging ground away and needing to retain the neighbour's higher land, than the higher property building a retaining wall so they could raise the ground level up. The latter is more likely to be found in newer developments.

The comment about the step-in (to accommodate an outbuilding/privy) tends to suggest quite strongly that space was at a premium for the lower property, hence the possible need for a retaining wall to give them a bit more level space.

But the answer will only come from trawling through the deeds, plus old maps/photos to try and establish who built the wall. The general slope of the land can give clues as well.

Or the possibly cheaper/easier solution is to agree 50:50 responsibility.

canaldumidi

Any response that admits that ownership of the wall, and/or maintenance of it, is your parent's responsibility, could have sgnificant future repercussions.

1) cost of maintenance/repair

2) cost of repair to/replacement of her soil if the wall collapsed and her garden fell onto your parent's land

3) legal liability for any damage, either to property or people, in the event of a collapse

4) difficulty selling the property, even at auction

5) price obtained when selling, even at auction

I appreciate your parents want to avoid a dispute, with all the cost, legal consequences, and stress, that could result, but I'd advise against simply going along with her claim.

If there's noLegal Cover, it might well be worth £100-£200 for a solicitor's reply perhaps ignoring the ownership question but pointing out that as owner of the higher ground, she is responsible for the wall's maintenance.

Assuming of course that my understanding of that is correct!