Potential Boundary Dispute/ Retaining Wall Ownership

Oxid8uk

Section62 said:

Mojisola said:

Oxid8uk said:

The title deeds do not make any reference to this retaining wall and who owns it. My dad is of the opinion that she owns it as it is retaining her land, however she is maintaining that as the title deeds make no reference to the ownership of the wall then it is shared.

This suggests that she is responsible.

"This position is different however when there is a retaining wall. It is generally accepted that the person whose land is retained by the wall is responsible for its repair and maintenance."

https://alwenajonesbright.co.uk/retaining-walls/

Not necessarily so though.  As that article continues to say -

"There are some exceptions to this general position however if the landowner of the lower land to a retaining wall has excavated a way to his own land to provide a lower but level area or if the owner of the land on the lower part of the retained wall had undertaken repair works that can indicate they have assumed responsibility for maintaining that retained wall."

So the starting point is trying to work out who had the retaining wall built.  In my experience it is more common with older properties to find that the lower property was responsible for digging ground away and needing to retain the neighbour's higher land, than the higher property building a retaining wall so they could raise the ground level up. The latter is more likely to be found in newer developments.

The comment about the step-in (to accommodate an outbuilding/privy) tends to suggest quite strongly that space was at a premium for the lower property, hence the possible need for a retaining wall to give them a bit more level space.

But the answer will only come from trawling through the deeds, plus old maps/photos to try and establish who built the wall. The general slope of the land can give clues as well.

Or the possibly cheaper/easier solution is to agree 50:50 responsibility.

It is believed the properties were built at the same time by the same family for family, hence why the privy may have been 'stepped-in' as at the time it wouldn't have been an issue i.e. ownership boundaries. My parents is a semi and the neighbours is a detached but they are of the same style i.e. same horizontal and vertical stone window mullions etc. My parents is at the same ground level as other properties further down the road (built at differing times). 

Section62

Oxid8uk said:

It is believed the properties were built at the same time by the same family for family, hence why the privy may have been 'stepped-in' as at the time it wouldn't have been an issue i.e. ownership boundaries. My parents is a semi and the neighbours is a detached but they are of the same style i.e. same horizontal and vertical stone window mullions etc. My parents is at the same ground level as other properties further down the road (built at differing times). 

In which case (although I'm not a lawyer) I think it might come down to which property was sold first.  AFAIK, if you subdivide a property and sell part of it away, then unless something is explicitly stated to be part of the transferred property, it will remain with the retained part (where legally permitted).

In other words, if the 'higher' property was sold first, the contract would have needed to state that the 'higher' property was also taking ownership and responsibility for the wall, and in the absence of that provision, it would still belong to the original owner.

It would be useful to have @canaldumidi comment on that as a legal principle - I'm not sure of the facts here.

canaldumidi

Section62 said:

Oxid8uk said:

It is believed the properties were built at the same time by the same family for family, hence why the privy may have been 'stepped-in' as at the time it wouldn't have been an issue i.e. ownership boundaries. My parents is a semi and the neighbours is a detached but they are of the same style i.e. same horizontal and vertical stone window mullions etc. My parents is at the same ground level as other properties further down the road (built at differing times). 

It would be useful to have @canaldumidi comment on that as a legal principle - I'm not sure of the facts here.

No idea. As I said earlier, this is not my area. I just googled/duckducked!

benson1980

We have a similar situation- albeit we bought the house with the dispute resolved. We have the higher ground but the neighbour has responsibility for the retaining wall.

I do wonder if there’s actually anything to dispute here. If they want ownership and responsibility- give it to them?. We certainly don’t want responsibility for the one to the side of our house, as if there’s any problems things get expensive- and as buyers we were mighty pleased to see in the proposed resolution that the neighbours wanted to adopt it as theirs.. The in step- again is a straight boundary line in both of your interests?

sheramber

benson1980 said:

We have a similar situation- albeit we bought the house with the dispute resolved. We have the higher ground but the neighbour has responsibility for the retaining wall.

I do wonder if there’s actually anything to dispute here. If they want ownership and responsibility- give it to them?. We certainly don’t want responsibility for the one to the side of our house, as if there’s any problems things get expensive- and as buyers we were mighty pleased to see in the proposed resolution that the neighbours wanted to adopt it as theirs.. The in step- again is a straight boundary line in both of your interests?

I do wonder if there’s actually anything to dispute here. If they want ownership and responsibility- give it to them?.

Have you read the first post?

 The OP's father does not want responsibility  but the neighbour wants shared  responsibility.

benson1980

sheramber said:

benson1980 said:

We have a similar situation- albeit we bought the house with the dispute resolved. We have the higher ground but the neighbour has responsibility for the retaining wall.

I do wonder if there’s actually anything to dispute here. If they want ownership and responsibility- give it to them?. We certainly don’t want responsibility for the one to the side of our house, as if there’s any problems things get expensive- and as buyers we were mighty pleased to see in the proposed resolution that the neighbours wanted to adopt it as theirs.. The in step- again is a straight boundary line in both of your interests?

I do wonder if there’s actually anything to dispute here. If they want ownership and responsibility- give it to them?.

Have you read the first post?

 The OP's father does not want responsibility  but the neighbour wants shared  responsibility.

Erm, yes. And I’ve read the subsequent post where it is clarified what the letter actually says. That she wants ownership of the retaining wall.

peter3hg

benson1980 said:

sheramber said:

benson1980 said:

We have a similar situation- albeit we bought the house with the dispute resolved. We have the higher ground but the neighbour has responsibility for the retaining wall.

I do wonder if there’s actually anything to dispute here. If they want ownership and responsibility- give it to them?. We certainly don’t want responsibility for the one to the side of our house, as if there’s any problems things get expensive- and as buyers we were mighty pleased to see in the proposed resolution that the neighbours wanted to adopt it as theirs.. The in step- again is a straight boundary line in both of your interests?

I do wonder if there’s actually anything to dispute here. If they want ownership and responsibility- give it to them?.

Have you read the first post?

 The OP's father does not want responsibility  but the neighbour wants shared  responsibility.

Erm, yes. And I’ve read the subsequent post where it is clarified what the letter actually says. That she wants ownership of the retaining wall.

You haven't understood what you've read then.

The neighbour wants the responsibility of the wall to be shared whereas the OP's parents insist that the neighbour is solely responsible for the wall.

TripleH

If the Op's parents have bought their house in the 1990's, surely it was registered then?

Should they get a copy of their deeds from the land registry to see what they say and if they can shed light on things?

ProDave

I take it the retaining wall is failing and needs repairs so neither of you want to "own" it and be responsible for repairing it?

Section62

ProDave said:

I take it the retaining wall is failing and needs repairs so neither of you want to "own" it and be responsible for repairing it?

The OP said -

"...but [the OP's parents] don't want to agree to joint responsibility of maintaining the wall in case it puts off buyers (there is nothing wrong with it at the moment - no maintenance currently required)."

Unfortunately it probably wasn't an issue, at least not the main issue with the property, until the OP's parents initiated a dispute with the neighbour. Now it is a case of trying to find a way of resolving it at least possible expense/loss.