Landlord withholding deposit. Inventory not signed

Jamesingram1

Hi everyone, I’m going to a dispute with my landlord. I was served section 21 notice in October because the landlord wanted to take the house back to live in  again. The carpets were very old and needed replacing, and all the gloss work was chipped. I made requests for this to be sorted during my tenancy which was declined. Now he has the house back he has chosen to do it himself. When was given my original notice I asked for an extension to Feb so I wasn’t moving over x mas. I unexpectedly found a house anyway so let him know. It then fell through but he told me it would be a problem now because he’d already made plans for the renovations to start in November. He told me he had another house I could live in that I would still be homeless for three weeks because he would be living in there until the renovations were done. Despite the fact I still could legally stay until December I agreed to leave the house early because having a good relationship with it was important to me and I didn’t want to upset his plans. I then got some pretty bad vibes from him and declined to move into his other house. The following day I was hit with £820 on the deposit of £950 for cleaning, gardening etc. my argument is that all the things marked as needed cleaning are all things he was paying to have renovated anyway - dusty skirting etc. however I also left early giving me not so much time to pack. I have since found out, that the agent does not have a signed copy of the check-in report. I also don’t have a check-in report they are saying that because they have timestamp pictures thst it doesn’t matter. I’m about to take him to court. Can someone tell me where I stand with this? Eg. A light broke about a month after I moved in which he’s trying to charge me £195 for even though an electrician said it was dead and was hanging off the ceiling by its wires which is have photos of. I don’t think TDS will look at this holistically which is why I want to go to court. What do you think? 

rexmedorum

Jamesingram1 said:

Hi everyone, I’m going to a dispute with my landlord. I was served section 21 notice in October because the landlord wanted to take the house back to live in  again. The carpets were very old and needed replacing, and all the gloss work was chipped. I made requests for this to be sorted during my tenancy which was declined. Now he has the house back he has chosen to do it himself. When was given my original notice I asked for an extension to Feb so I wasn’t moving over x mas. I unexpectedly found a house anyway so let him know. It then fell through but he told me it would be a problem now because he’d already made plans for the renovations to start in November. He told me he had another house I could live in that I would still be homeless for three weeks because he would be living in there until the renovations were done. Despite the fact I still could legally stay until December I agreed to leave the house early because having a good relationship with it was important to me and I didn’t want to upset his plans. I then got some pretty bad vibes from him and declined to move into his other house. The following day I was hit with £820 on the deposit of £950 for cleaning, gardening etc. my argument is that all the things marked as needed cleaning are all things he was paying to have renovated anyway - dusty skirting etc. however I also left early giving me not so much time to pack. I have since found out, that the agent does not have a signed copy of the check-in report. I also don’t have a check-in report they are saying that because they have timestamp pictures thst it doesn’t matter. I’m about to take him to court. Can someone tell me where I stand with this? Eg. A light broke about a month after I moved in which he’s trying to charge me £195 for even though an electrician said it was dead and was hanging off the ceiling by its wires which is have photos of. I don’t think TDS will look at this holistically which is why I want to go to court. What do you think? 

Is the deposit protected? If so claim it back from them. Hopefully you have made pictures on move in and move out so you can easily show the difference?

pramsay13

You need to use the deposit service as this is exactly what it was designed for. 
The lack of signature on the check in inventory isn't a big deal, but just clearly set out why you think these deductions are excessive along with whatever evidence or photos you have.
A court wouldn't look favourably on you going to court without using the deposit arbitration service. 

theartfullodger

Perhaps you have acquaintances who could provide evidence?  Follow dispute process, using advice from deposit scheme and shelter website on such disputes.  

Good luck!  Artful, landlord.

canaldumidi

Jamesingram1 said:

The carpets were very old and needed replacing, and all the gloss work was chipped. I made requests for this to be sorted during my tenancy which was declined. You have copies of your letters? If this goes to arbitration or court that will help.

Now he has the house back he has chosen to do it himself. Irrelevant

When was given my original notice I asked for an extension to Feb so I wasn’t moving over x mas. I unexpectedly found a house anyway so let him know. It then fell through but he told me it would be a problem now because he’d already made plans for the renovations to start in November. He told me he had another house I could live in that I would still be homeless for three weeks because he would be living in there until the renovations were done. Despite the fact I still could legally stay until December I agreed to leave the house early because having a good relationship with it was important to me and I didn’t want to upset his plans.

So you both agreed a contract till Feb.

Then you both agreed to cancel this contract.

Then you and he agreed an Early Surrender to leave on ?? what date? And you left.

You also both agreed a new contract at a new proprty.

I then got some pretty bad vibes from him and declined to move into his other house.

So you breached this new contract and are liable for the costs of that breach.

The following day I was hit with £820 on the deposit of £950 for cleaning, gardening etc.

What is the exact breakdown of these costs?

my argument is that all the things marked as needed cleaning are all things he was paying to have renovated anyway - dusty skirting etc.

Irrelevant. The deduction is because the property NEEDS cleaning. Whether the LL later CHOOSES to clean, or leave the property dirty, is his choice.

however I also left early giving me not so much time to pack.

Irrelevant. Your choice. But you also appear tohave breached the contract at the new property. This of course is irrelvant so far as the deposit at the 1st property is concered, but could be added to a court claim.

I have since found out, that the agent does not have a signed copy of the check-in report. I also don’t have a check-in report they are saying that because they have timestamp pictures thst it doesn’t matter.

A check in rport is not compulsory.It simply forms PART of the evidence of the property condition at the start. Yes, without it, it is harder for the LL to argue his case, but not impossible.

I’m about to take him to court. Can someone tell me where I stand with this?

Eg. A light broke about a month after I moved in which he’s trying to charge me £195 for even though an electrician said it was dead and was hanging off the ceiling by its wires which is have photos of. I don’t think TDS will look at this holistically which is why I want to go to court. What do you think? 

Much of what you write is irrelevant.

What is the exact breakdown of charges he is claiming? Only by examiing each item individually can you/we say whether the claim may be just, and the amount may be reasonable.

It also sounds like there might be an argument that rent is due, since you may not have given proper notice to end the 1st tenancy, and failed to take up the 2nd tenancy despite forming a contract.

What other evidence might the LL have regarding the condition of the tenancy at the start? Photos? Receipts from contractors? Receipts fornew purchases?....?

My advice would be OT togo to court unless the LL sue you, but to apply to TDS for your deposit.

Jamesingram1

ircanaldumidi said:

Jamesingram1 said:

The carpets were very old and needed replacing, and all the gloss work was chipped. I made requests for this to be sorted during my tenancy which was declined. You have copies of your letters? If this goes to arbitration or court that will help.

Now he has the house back he has chosen to do it himself. Irrelevant

When was given my original notice I asked for an extension to Feb so I wasn’t moving over x mas. I unexpectedly found a house anyway so let him know. It then fell through but he told me it would be a problem now because he’d already made plans for the renovations to start in November. He told me he had another house I could live in that I would still be homeless for three weeks because he would be living in there until the renovations were done. Despite the fact I still could legally stay until December I agreed to leave the house early because having a good relationship with it was important to me and I didn’t want to upset his plans.

So you both agreed a contract till Feb.

Then you both agreed to cancel this contract.

Then you and he agreed an Early Surrender to leave on ?? what date? And you left.

You also both agreed a new contract at a new proprty.

I then got some pretty bad vibes from him and declined to move into his other house.

So you breached this new contract and are liable for the costs of that breach.

The following day I was hit with £820 on the deposit of £950 for cleaning, gardening etc.

What is the exact breakdown of these costs?

my argument is that all the things marked as needed cleaning are all things he was paying to have renovated anyway - dusty skirting etc.

Irrelevant. The deduction is because the property NEEDS cleaning. Whether the LL later CHOOSES to clean, or leave the property dirty, is his choice.

however I also left early giving me not so much time to pack.

Irrelevant. Your choice. But you also appear tohave breached the contract at the new property. This of course is irrelvant so far as the deposit at the 1st property is concered, but could be added to a court claim.

I have since found out, that the agent does not have a signed copy of the check-in report. I also don’t have a check-in report they are saying that because they have timestamp pictures thst it doesn’t matter.

A check in rport is not compulsory.It simply forms PART of the evidence of the property condition at the start. Yes, without it, it is harder for the LL to argue his case, but not impossible.

I’m about to take him to court. Can someone tell me where I stand with this?

Eg. A light broke about a month after I moved in which he’s trying to charge me £195 for even though an electrician said it was dead and was hanging off the ceiling by its wires which is have photos of. I don’t think TDS will look at this holistically which is why I want to go to court. What do you think? 

Much of what you write is irrelevant.

What is the exact breakdown of charges he is claiming? Only by examiing each item individually can you/we say whether the claim may be just, and the amount may be reasonable.

It also sounds like there might be an argument that rent is due, since you may not have given proper notice to end the 1st tenancy, and failed to take up the 2nd tenancy despite forming a contract.

What other evidence might the LL have regarding the condition of the tenancy at the start? Photos? Receipts from contractors? Receipts fornew purchases?....?

My advice would be OT togo to court unless the LL sue you, but to apply to TDS for your deposit.

I haven’t breached a contract for second property because I refused to sign the agreement, that was when I got the £820 the following day. I disagree that the condition is Irrelevant, I moved out of the house early as a favour to him with the sole purpose of allowing him to renovate it, otherwise I would have stayed until the end of my s21. This is just to try and use my deposit to pay for it. The property was taken back for renovation so he can’t now charge me for cleaning services that can’t be rendered because they are all repainted. I do have photos of the condition of the house from within the first few weeks of me moving in. I do have copies of the letters. The checkout report has suspicious entries. For example it was remarked that insurance meant the loft couldn’t be checked, yet someone (I’m assuming he must have been there at the checkout) stood on a chair and took photos of the inside of the collars on a 3 arm metal chandelier and remarked they were dusty. Really was over the top. Lots of close up images that were not present on the apparent move in inventory, stuff taken so close up you can’t see where it is. Kitchen floor marked clean in original inventory even though you can clearly see it isn’t. Just poor effort.

[Deleted User]

You needed to return the property in same condition as when your tenancy started. Fair wear and tear allowed. Knowledge that the landlord may be planning some renovations that would make your cleaning irrelevant is not licence to leave it dirty. I can see that you arent confident in the deposit scheme finding in your favour so you think you can bypass it with court action. Dont think so.

deannagone

So you point this out when you claim the deposit back through the deposit scheme.  However, don't say cleaning was unecessary.  The starting point is that you leave the place in the condition you found it.., allowing for fair wear and tear.  It doesn't mattter what the LL is proposing to do (and I have to point out that before painting I always give things a thorough clean to remove dust and grease that accumulates on walls so I can see what I need to do).  What the LL is going to do makes no difference to the state you need to leave the place in.  

Use the evidence you have to establish what state the place was in when you moved in, what state it is in now and cross everything.  I have to be honest, it doesn't sound like you will get your full deposit back, but you should get something. I am afraid for protection, a tenant has to proof of everything.  

I'm not sure why you think a deposit scheme won't be fair.  That's what they were set up for, because too many LL's were taking tenants for a ride.

Jamesingram1

[Deleted User] said:

You needed to return the property in same condition as when your tenancy started. Fair wear and tear allowed. Knowledge that the landlord may be planning some renovations that would make your cleaning irrelevant is not licence to leave it dirty. I can see that you arent confident in the deposit scheme finding in your favour so you think you can bypass it with court action. Dont think so.

You’re absolutely right I’m not confident in the DPS. I think they will look at it based on a set of guidelines where as the court will look at it based on a whole. I can also present myself in person there and not have someone decide it who Sits in an office doing it all day every day. 

dimbo61

Did the property have any Gas appliances in it ? 
Did the LL/LA carry out a gas Safe Certificate every year ?
Does the rental property have a valid EPC ? ( You can check online )
Did the LL/ LA carry out an EICR report on the electrics in the last 12 months ?
The Lettings Agents if the Landlord used one are now part of a redress scheme and won't want a complaint about failing to provide an EPC, GSC or EICR.

Jamesingram1

deannagone said:

So you point this out when you claim the deposit back through the deposit scheme.  However, don't say cleaning was unecessary.  The starting point is that you leave the place in the condition you found it.., allowing for fair wear and tear.  It doesn't mattter what the LL is proposing to do (and I have to point out that before painting I always give things a thorough clean to remove dust and grease that accumulates on walls so I can see what I need to do).  What the LL is going to do makes no difference to the state you need to leave the place in.  

Use the evidence you have to establish what state the place was in when you moved in, what state it is in now and cross everything.  I have to be honest, it doesn't sound like you will get your full deposit back, but you should get something. I am afraid for protection, a tenant has to proof of everything.  

I'm not sure why you think a deposit scheme won't be fair.  That's what they were set up for, because too many LL's were taking tenants for a ride.

The reality was that because I agreed to leave early when I thought I would stay until Feb, I had to pack up the entire contents of a 3 bed house that I lived in for 4 years whilst also working well over full time hours running my business. I was up until 1am every morning for 3 weeks packing boxes up. I left the house at 3am on the final day; there was no time to do anything else, I was so stressed I ended up leaving my clothes in the wardrobe.  he wanted his tenant out  early - I didn’t have to leave early, and now I’m being stabbed in the back for it. I feel he’s being totally unreasonable. I’ll also add he’s claiming £260 for this cleaning, which is actually just dusty skirting boards and picture rails, Silly things added like a tiny line of dust on an inner edge of a frame of a painting . I’d have gone back and done it myself; I used to run a cleaning business. He’s also not provided any invoices for these numbers and the estate agent is lying to me saying one minute they have them and the next minute they are still waiting for them. A shrub fell over in the garden after I left but before the checkout which he’s trying to bill me for as £150 for gardening (tiny courtyard garden) and for the condition of the front garden even though it’s obviously in a better condition as I had it pressure washed, also billing me for weeds in the garden when it was a mess when I moved in and I’d also spend 7 hours gardening it the week before I left. When living there I repainted the hallways and two bedrooms twice. maintained it in general at my own costs, bought the gas fire back in to service at my own cost.  He cannot be pulling numbers out of thin air and expecting me to pay them.