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Landlord withholding deposit. Inventory not signed
Comments
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Jamesingram1 said:ircanaldumidi said:Jamesingram1 said:The carpets were very old and needed replacing, and all the gloss work was chipped. I made requests for this to be sorted during my tenancy which was declined. You have copies of your letters? If this goes to arbitration or court that will help.Now he has the house back he has chosen to do it himself. IrrelevantWhen was given my original notice I asked for an extension to Feb so I wasn’t moving over x mas. I unexpectedly found a house anyway so let him know. It then fell through but he told me it would be a problem now because he’d already made plans for the renovations to start in November. He told me he had another house I could live in that I would still be homeless for three weeks because he would be living in there until the renovations were done. Despite the fact I still could legally stay until December I agreed to leave the house early because having a good relationship with it was important to me and I didn’t want to upset his plans.So you both agreed a contract till Feb.Then you both agreed to cancel this contract.Then you and he agreed an Early Surrender to leave on ?? what date? And you left.You also both agreed a new contract at a new proprty.I then got some pretty bad vibes from him and declined to move into his other house.So you breached this new contract and are liable for the costs of that breach.The following day I was hit with £820 on the deposit of £950 for cleaning, gardening etc.What is the exact breakdown of these costs?my argument is that all the things marked as needed cleaning are all things he was paying to have renovated anyway - dusty skirting etc.Irrelevant. The deduction is because the property NEEDS cleaning. Whether the LL later CHOOSES to clean, or leave the property dirty, is his choice.however I also left early giving me not so much time to pack.Irrelevant. Your choice. But you also appear tohave breached the contract at the new property. This of course is irrelvant so far as the deposit at the 1st property is concered, but could be added to a court claim.I have since found out, that the agent does not have a signed copy of the check-in report. I also don’t have a check-in report they are saying that because they have timestamp pictures thst it doesn’t matter.A check in rport is not compulsory.It simply forms PART of the evidence of the property condition at the start. Yes, without it, it is harder for the LL to argue his case, but not impossible.I’m about to take him to court. Can someone tell me where I stand with this?Eg. A light broke about a month after I moved in which he’s trying to charge me £195 for even though an electrician said it was dead and was hanging off the ceiling by its wires which is have photos of. I don’t think TDS will look at this holistically which is why I want to go to court. What do you think?Much of what you write is irrelevant.What is the exact breakdown of charges he is claiming? Only by examiing each item individually can you/we say whether the claim may be just, and the amount may be reasonable.It also sounds like there might be an argument that rent is due, since you may not have given proper notice to end the 1st tenancy, and failed to take up the 2nd tenancy despite forming a contract.What other evidence might the LL have regarding the condition of the tenancy at the start? Photos? Receipts from contractors? Receipts fornew purchases?....?My advice would be OT togo to court unless the LL sue you, but to apply to TDS for your deposit.It was not clear from your post whether there was an agreement for the 2nd property.He told me he had another house I could live in that I would still be homeless for three weeks. Despite the fact I still could legally stay until December I agreed to leave the house early because having a good relationship with it was important to me and I didn’t want to upset his plans. I then got some pretty bad vibes from him and declined to move into his other houseSounded like he offerred the 2nd house, you agreed, then you changed your mind. However it's all very legally vague. So I'd advise again- don't go to court where this might all get raised, whereas at arbitration they will only look at the deposit.I got the £820 the following day.
So all that is in dispute is the outstanding £130 (950-820)? Or do you mean you were informed of a £850 deduction? If you go to court you are going to have to be far more precise in your claim, and in your explanation of the facts.
The property was taken back for renovation so he can’t now charge me for cleaning services that can’t be rendered because they are all repaintedI repeat, that is irrelevant. Imagine you bump my car and cause a dent. You give me £100 because of the damage to my car. I can spend the £100 repairing the damage, or I can spend it in the pub with my friends and choose to drive around in a dented car. It's my £100 to do what I want with.
The cleaning costs at the property are the same. They are compensation for the dirt, and what the LL does with the money, and with the property, is entirely irrelevant from a legal point of view. Again - both in court or at arbitration, you need to understand this, since you will weaken your case, not strengthen it, by putting forward this argument.
The checkout report has suspicious entries.The insurance comment is not suspicious. If the attic could not be inspected for insurance reasons it is correct forthe inventory clerk to explain why there is no description of the attic.I agree such miniscule observations of dust on chandeliers is excessive - say so in your dispute. If the check in said the kitchen floor was clean but you believe this was not the case, say so at arbitration and present your evidence. It willthen be for the arbitrator (or court if you insist) to decide who they believe. That's the point of arbitrators and judges.
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canaldumidi said:Jamesingram1 said:ircanaldumidi said:Jamesingram1 said:The carpets were very old and needed replacing, and all the gloss work was chipped. I made requests for this to be sorted during my tenancy which was declined. You have copies of your letters? If this goes to arbitration or court that will help.Now he has the house back he has chosen to do it himself. IrrelevantWhen was given my original notice I asked for an extension to Feb so I wasn’t moving over x mas. I unexpectedly found a house anyway so let him know. It then fell through but he told me it would be a problem now because he’d already made plans for the renovations to start in November. He told me he had another house I could live in that I would still be homeless for three weeks because he would be living in there until the renovations were done. Despite the fact I still could legally stay until December I agreed to leave the house early because having a good relationship with it was important to me and I didn’t want to upset his plans.So you both agreed a contract till Feb.Then you both agreed to cancel this contract.Then you and he agreed an Early Surrender to leave on ?? what date? And you left.You also both agreed a new contract at a new proprty.I then got some pretty bad vibes from him and declined to move into his other house.So you breached this new contract and are liable for the costs of that breach.The following day I was hit with £820 on the deposit of £950 for cleaning, gardening etc.What is the exact breakdown of these costs?my argument is that all the things marked as needed cleaning are all things he was paying to have renovated anyway - dusty skirting etc.Irrelevant. The deduction is because the property NEEDS cleaning. Whether the LL later CHOOSES to clean, or leave the property dirty, is his choice.however I also left early giving me not so much time to pack.Irrelevant. Your choice. But you also appear tohave breached the contract at the new property. This of course is irrelvant so far as the deposit at the 1st property is concered, but could be added to a court claim.I have since found out, that the agent does not have a signed copy of the check-in report. I also don’t have a check-in report they are saying that because they have timestamp pictures thst it doesn’t matter.A check in rport is not compulsory.It simply forms PART of the evidence of the property condition at the start. Yes, without it, it is harder for the LL to argue his case, but not impossible.I’m about to take him to court. Can someone tell me where I stand with this?Eg. A light broke about a month after I moved in which he’s trying to charge me £195 for even though an electrician said it was dead and was hanging off the ceiling by its wires which is have photos of. I don’t think TDS will look at this holistically which is why I want to go to court. What do you think?Much of what you write is irrelevant.What is the exact breakdown of charges he is claiming? Only by examiing each item individually can you/we say whether the claim may be just, and the amount may be reasonable.It also sounds like there might be an argument that rent is due, since you may not have given proper notice to end the 1st tenancy, and failed to take up the 2nd tenancy despite forming a contract.What other evidence might the LL have regarding the condition of the tenancy at the start? Photos? Receipts from contractors? Receipts fornew purchases?....?My advice would be OT togo to court unless the LL sue you, but to apply to TDS for your deposit.It was not clear from your post whether there was an agreement for the 2nd property.He told me he had another house I could live in that I would still be homeless for three weeks. Despite the fact I still could legally stay until December I agreed to leave the house early because having a good relationship with it was important to me and I didn’t want to upset his plans. I then got some pretty bad vibes from him and declined to move into his other houseSounded like he offerred the 2nd house, you agreed, then you changed your mind. However it's all very legally vague. So I'd advise again- don't go to court where this might all get raised, whereas at arbitration they will only look at the deposit.I got the £820 the following day.
So all that is in dispute is the outstanding £130 (950-820)? Or do you mean you were informed of a £850 deduction? If you go to court you are going to have to be far more precise in your claim, and in your explanation of the facts.
The property was taken back for renovation so he can’t now charge me for cleaning services that can’t be rendered because they are all repaintedI repeat, that is irrelevant. Imagine you bump my car and cause a dent. You give me £100 because of the damage to my car. I can spend the £100 repairing the damage, or I can spend it in the pub with my friends and choose to drive around in a dented car. It's my £100 to do what I want with.
The cleaning costs at the property are the same. They are compensation for the dirt, and what the LL does with the money, and with the property, is entirely irrelevant from a legal point of view. Again - both in court or at arbitration, you need to understand this, since you will weaken your case, not strengthen it, by putting forward this argument.
The checkout report has suspicious entries.The insurance comment is not suspicious. If the attic could not be inspected for insurance reasons it is correct forthe inventory clerk to explain why there is no description of the attic.I agree such miniscule observations of dust on chandeliers is excessive - say so in your dispute. If the check in said the kitchen floor was clean but you believe this was not the case, say so at arbitration and present your evidence. It willthen be for the arbitrator (or court if you insist) to decide who they believe. That's the point of arbitrators and judges.0 -
Jamesingram1 said:canaldumidi said:Jamesingram1 said:ircanaldumidi said:Jamesingram1 said:The carpets were very old and needed replacing, and all the gloss work was chipped. I made requests for this to be sorted during my tenancy which was declined. You have copies of your letters? If this goes to arbitration or court that will help.Now he has the house back he has chosen to do it himself. IrrelevantWhen was given my original notice I asked for an extension to Feb so I wasn’t moving over x mas. I unexpectedly found a house anyway so let him know. It then fell through but he told me it would be a problem now because he’d already made plans for the renovations to start in November. He told me he had another house I could live in that I would still be homeless for three weeks because he would be living in there until the renovations were done. Despite the fact I still could legally stay until December I agreed to leave the house early because having a good relationship with it was important to me and I didn’t want to upset his plans.So you both agreed a contract till Feb.Then you both agreed to cancel this contract.Then you and he agreed an Early Surrender to leave on ?? what date? And you left.You also both agreed a new contract at a new proprty.I then got some pretty bad vibes from him and declined to move into his other house.So you breached this new contract and are liable for the costs of that breach.The following day I was hit with £820 on the deposit of £950 for cleaning, gardening etc.What is the exact breakdown of these costs?my argument is that all the things marked as needed cleaning are all things he was paying to have renovated anyway - dusty skirting etc.Irrelevant. The deduction is because the property NEEDS cleaning. Whether the LL later CHOOSES to clean, or leave the property dirty, is his choice.however I also left early giving me not so much time to pack.Irrelevant. Your choice. But you also appear tohave breached the contract at the new property. This of course is irrelvant so far as the deposit at the 1st property is concered, but could be added to a court claim.I have since found out, that the agent does not have a signed copy of the check-in report. I also don’t have a check-in report they are saying that because they have timestamp pictures thst it doesn’t matter.A check in rport is not compulsory.It simply forms PART of the evidence of the property condition at the start. Yes, without it, it is harder for the LL to argue his case, but not impossible.I’m about to take him to court. Can someone tell me where I stand with this?Eg. A light broke about a month after I moved in which he’s trying to charge me £195 for even though an electrician said it was dead and was hanging off the ceiling by its wires which is have photos of. I don’t think TDS will look at this holistically which is why I want to go to court. What do you think?Much of what you write is irrelevant.What is the exact breakdown of charges he is claiming? Only by examiing each item individually can you/we say whether the claim may be just, and the amount may be reasonable.It also sounds like there might be an argument that rent is due, since you may not have given proper notice to end the 1st tenancy, and failed to take up the 2nd tenancy despite forming a contract.What other evidence might the LL have regarding the condition of the tenancy at the start? Photos? Receipts from contractors? Receipts fornew purchases?....?My advice would be OT togo to court unless the LL sue you, but to apply to TDS for your deposit.It was not clear from your post whether there was an agreement for the 2nd property.He told me he had another house I could live in that I would still be homeless for three weeks. Despite the fact I still could legally stay until December I agreed to leave the house early because having a good relationship with it was important to me and I didn’t want to upset his plans. I then got some pretty bad vibes from him and declined to move into his other houseSounded like he offerred the 2nd house, you agreed, then you changed your mind. However it's all very legally vague. So I'd advise again- don't go to court where this might all get raised, whereas at arbitration they will only look at the deposit.I got the £820 the following day.
So all that is in dispute is the outstanding £130 (950-820)? Or do you mean you were informed of a £850 deduction? If you go to court you are going to have to be far more precise in your claim, and in your explanation of the facts.
The property was taken back for renovation so he can’t now charge me for cleaning services that can’t be rendered because they are all repaintedI repeat, that is irrelevant. Imagine you bump my car and cause a dent. You give me £100 because of the damage to my car. I can spend the £100 repairing the damage, or I can spend it in the pub with my friends and choose to drive around in a dented car. It's my £100 to do what I want with.
The cleaning costs at the property are the same. They are compensation for the dirt, and what the LL does with the money, and with the property, is entirely irrelevant from a legal point of view. Again - both in court or at arbitration, you need to understand this, since you will weaken your case, not strengthen it, by putting forward this argument.
The checkout report has suspicious entries.The insurance comment is not suspicious. If the attic could not be inspected for insurance reasons it is correct forthe inventory clerk to explain why there is no description of the attic.I agree such miniscule observations of dust on chandeliers is excessive - say so in your dispute. If the check in said the kitchen floor was clean but you believe this was not the case, say so at arbitration and present your evidence. It willthen be for the arbitrator (or court if you insist) to decide who they believe. That's the point of arbitrators and judges.Oh dear. I was hoping the analogy would clarify the legal position for you, and hesitate to get too deeply into analysing it. But you are over-complicating it. My analogy was not referring to liability for the damage (whether to car or property), but to how the claimant (car owner/landlord) chooses to use the money which is agreed to be compensation for the liability.You have suggested that because the LL is going to renovate the property, you should not have topay for any damage which you ma have caused. By all means contest your liability on the grounds that you did not cause any damage, but do not use the LL's future plans for the property as justification to avoid your liability. You will simply annoy the arbitrator or judge.OK - I've said my piece. Accept it or ignore it. Your choice.3 -
Jamesingram1 said:[Deleted User] said:I can see that you arent confident in the deposit scheme finding in your favour so you think you can bypass it with court action. Dont think so.
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Section62 said:Jamesingram1 said:[Deleted User] said:I can see that you arent confident in the deposit scheme finding in your favour so you think you can bypass it with court action. Dont think so.0
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Jamesingram1 said:Hi everyone, I’m going to a dispute with my landlord. I was served section 21 notice in October because the landlord wanted to take the house back to live in again. - okay, but until this gets to a court possession order, it doesn't mean much.
The carpets were very old and needed replacing, and all the gloss work was chipped. I made requests for this to be sorted during my tenancy which was declined. - as is his right: the time to request this was before you moved in. During your tenancy, there's no obligation to improve the condition, only fix things in disrepair.
Now he has the house back he has chosen to do it himself. When was given my original notice I asked for an extension to Feb so I wasn’t moving over x mas. - what exactly happened: did you agree a mutual termination in Feb?
I unexpectedly found a house anyway so let him know. - again, what precisely happened: did you amend a termination agreement, or serve your own notice? If so, then you can't take that back unilatterally.
It then fell through but he told me it would be a problem now because he’d already made plans for the renovations to start in November. He told me he had another house I could live in that I would still be homeless for three weeks because he would be living in there until the renovations were done. Despite the fact I still could legally stay until December I agreed to leave the house early because having a good relationship with it was important to me and I didn’t want to upset his plans. - again, what precisely happened with THIS house: did you have a mutual termination agreed for Nov, and move out? If so, you can't take that back.
I then got some pretty bad vibes from him and declined to move into his other house. The following day I was hit with £820 on the deposit of £950 for cleaning, gardening etc. - okay, so look at the breakdown, whether those items were (a) different to how they were at the start excepting fair wear and tear, and (b) whether the charges are objectively reasonable costs to remediate or compensate for the lost value.
my argument is that all the things marked as needed cleaning are all things he was paying to have renovated anyway - dusty skirting etc. - irrelevant what happens to them after.. if the skirting needed dusting, then that's your liability regardless of whether they do it or live with it or demolish the house.
however I also left early giving me not so much time to pack. - irrelevant, as that was your choice.. legally you agreed to a certain early move date to maintain the relationship. Note this is indeed actually fair, as you don't know whether the LL would have preferred you don't accommodate his dates but also don't leave a bunch of mess.
I have since found out, that the agent does not have a signed copy of the check-in report. I also don’t have a check-in report they are saying that because they have timestamp pictures thst it doesn’t matter. - a signed check in is good evidence, but not the only possible evidence. Time stamped pictures could also show the condition, which you may / may not be able to contradict with your own pictures. Its just based on the balance of evidence.
I’m about to take him to court. Can someone tell me where I stand with this? Eg. A light broke about a month after I moved in which he’s trying to charge me £195 for even though an electrician said it was dead and was hanging off the ceiling by its wires which is have photos of. - depends on what proof you have from the electrician etc vs what they can demonstrate. If it was working for a month, then how did it just spontaneously die. The fact that it was before the end of the tenancy doesn't necessarily absolve you if it was your fault at the time.
I don’t think TDS will look at this holistically which is why I want to go to court. What do you think? - this would be small claims court, which is pretty similar to the TDS arbiters in that its a person in a room, looking at mostly paper evidence, knowing the guidelines. The difference being for court you'd have to pay the filing fees, as you chose not to avail yourself of the free TDS service and the holistic picture being looked at less favourably for you due to you choosing to waste the court's time.Jamesingram1 said:deannagone said:So you point this out when you claim the deposit back through the deposit scheme. However, don't say cleaning was unecessary. The starting point is that you leave the place in the condition you found it.., allowing for fair wear and tear. It doesn't mattter what the LL is proposing to do (and I have to point out that before painting I always give things a thorough clean to remove dust and grease that accumulates on walls so I can see what I need to do). What the LL is going to do makes no difference to the state you need to leave the place in.
Use the evidence you have to establish what state the place was in when you moved in, what state it is in now and cross everything. I have to be honest, it doesn't sound like you will get your full deposit back, but you should get something. I am afraid for protection, a tenant has to proof of everything.
I'm not sure why you think a deposit scheme won't be fair. That's what they were set up for, because too many LL's were taking tenants for a ride.
I feel he’s being totally unreasonable. I’ll also add he’s claiming £260 for this cleaning, which is actually just dusty skirting boards and picture rails, Silly things added like a tiny line of dust on an inner edge of a frame of a painting . I’d have gone back and done it myself; I used to run a cleaning business. He’s also not provided any invoices for these numbers and the estate agent is lying to me saying one minute they have them and the next minute they are still waiting for them. - so then wait for the justification of the £260. You have no right to go back, and that could take ages anyway, since you're so busy.. you should have done it before leaving. Now they fully have the right to pay for a cleaner and charge it on to you. If they're beefing up the hours etc, then challenge that, but its not unreasonable that you're liable for SOME cleaning.
A shrub fell over in the garden after I left but before the checkout which he’s trying to bill me for as £150 for gardening (tiny courtyard garden) and for the condition of the front garden even though it’s obviously in a better condition as I had it pressure washed, also billing me for weeds in the garden when it was a mess when I moved in and I’d also spend 7 hours gardening it the week before I left. - other improvements are irrelevant. Just focus on the things they are claiming for: if they were the same or worse in the check in, then challenge.
When living there I repainted the hallways and two bedrooms twice. maintained it in general at my own costs, bought the gas fire back in to service at my own cost. - irrelevant, then you got to enjoy them while you lived there. Hope you had permission to paint as well, or you could be charged to reinstate.
He cannot be pulling numbers out of thin air and expecting me to pay them.
Re the actual deposit, focus on what they are charging for, ask for invoices / justifications, and challenge where things don't match up to the difference between the check in & out.1 -
I have challenged our letting agents deductions because they are claiming damage compared to the opening inventory. The difference is that we never had sight of this inventory when we moved in so my argument is that you cannot say the property is worse than this report we have that we have not previously had sight of because we have had no opportunity to query it previously.How long did you live at the property?I would send copies of any emails you sent when raising issues of repair to the TDS as part of your claim.May you find your sister soon Helli.
Sleep well.0
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