Sheriff court claim, Have I got the correct template?

Gullzter

Hi folks, recently got a small claims from sheriff court (scotland) regarding several alleged PCNs from a few years ago.

Am I correct in thinking the 2nd post in the following thread is the correct and up to date defence?
Suggested template defence to adapt for all parking charge cases where they add false admin costs — MoneySavingExpert Forum

And would it be best to respond by email or by royal mail recorded delivery, as the link provided suggests by email only in regards to responding to claimant/solicitor but in this case I am responding to the court?

Many Thanks

Umkomaas

There are no templates on the forum to defend any claim in the Sheriff Court in Scotland. We have focused on England and Wales, never coming across many Scotland cases ever. 

You will need specialist advice with a Scotland focus - there are some free law centres around Scotland, so that might be a starting point for you. 

Just how many tickets are involved, and what's the size of the claim?  

How old is your first ticket in the batch?

Which parking firm is pursuing you?

Which legal company is representing them?

Gullzter

Umkomaas said:

There are no templates on the forum to defend any claim in the Sheriff Court in Scotland. We have focused on England and Wales, never coming across many Scotland cases ever. 

You will need specialist advice with a Scotland focus - there are some free law centres around Scotland, so that might be a starting point for you. 

Just how many tickets are involved, and what's the size of the claim?  

How old is your first ticket in the batch?

Which parking firm is pursuing you?

Which legal company is representing them?

8 PCNs total £1120
1st ticket is around early April 2019
Euro car parks represented by Yuill & Kyle

Worth noting this was the first I had heard of the tickets, I contacted Citizens advice and they said to simply put on the reply form that although I was registered keeper, I was not the driver at the time of alleged offences and furthermore I had not received any PCNs and that this was the 1st I had heard anything of them, of course I thought to do a bit more research first in case I may be better with a detailed response.   

Umkomaas

The CAB is correct insofar as keeper liability is not law in Scotland (but will be next year, but not retrospective). However it won't be as simple as that in getting this claim killed off. IMHO, you need further more detailed professional advice than that. If you push the (perfectly legal) 'no keeper liability' argument forward, you run the risk of the judge simply asking, 'Were you, or were you not the driver on the dates of each PCN?'  You will need to have a truthful answer to hand if asked. 

I'm not sure whether there might be advice on Simple Procedure claims over on the more legal focused forum - LegalBeagles - where more legal experts contribute their thoughts, so perhaps pose your questions there too. 

I note that your first PCN dates from 2019, which is within the statutory limitation of 5 years for Scotland, after which the debt is deemed 'dead'. 

BrownTrout

To respond to the claim, you must complete the Response Form and send it to the sheriff court (named) and to the claimant.

If you were not the driver you should clearly state this in the form. Be clear and precise! No flanel etc etc......

Gullzter

BrownTrout said:

To respond to the claim, you must complete the Response Form and send it to the sheriff court (named) and to the claimant.

If you were not the driver you should clearly state this in the form. Be clear and precise! No flanel etc etc......

Thanks for the response, does it need to be a detailed response like the template I've linked?
Or will a simple, "I was not the driver during these alleged offences" be sufficient?

BrownTrout

I would personally write something in my own words 
You should explain why you were  not driver (i know that seems odd) but you need to be able to expand on "i wasnt driving it was my dog" 
You then should look up the timetables and hearing processes involved as its rather different to south of the border.
Dont miss any deadlines on the paperwork. There is less lieancy then the other side of hadrians wall (yes i know)......
If you have time look and research relevant case law.

Gullzter

BrownTrout said:

I would personally write something in my own words 
You should explain why you were  not driver (i know that seems odd) but you need to be able to expand on "i wasnt driving it was my dog" 
You then should look up the timetables and hearing processes involved as its rather different to south of the border.
Dont miss any deadlines on the paperwork. There is less lieancy then the other side of hadrians wall (yes i know)......
If you have time look and research relevant case law.

I don't have a response in regards to being the driver at the time as I haven't been given specific dates, just the date of 8 PCNs between x and x , I also need to have my response in by 19/12 (2 days) so I am a bit stuck for time 
Afaik in scotland I wouldn't need to name another driver so would i need to prove I wasnt driving at the time?

BrownTrout

Gullzter said:

BrownTrout said:

I would personally write something in my own words 
You should explain why you were  not driver (i know that seems odd) but you need to be able to expand on "i wasnt driving it was my dog" 
You then should look up the timetables and hearing processes involved as its rather different to south of the border.
Dont miss any deadlines on the paperwork. There is less lieancy then the other side of hadrians wall (yes i know)......
If you have time look and research relevant case law.

I don't have a response in regards to being the driver at the time as I haven't been given specific dates, just the date of 8 PCNs between x and x , I also need to have my response in by 19/12 (2 days) so I am a bit stuck for time 
Afaik in scotland I wouldn't need to name another driver so would i need to prove I wasnt driving at the time?

why have you left it so tight?
So no you don't need to name anyone, but at this stage you need assert why you were not the driver (if that's the case) and then do a SAR to the parking company ASAP, so you can then have those dates to hand at the eventual hearing
Either you remember being the driver or your were not the driver, you cant dilly dally and you will need to hand deliver your response to the court and send the copy to the claimants solicitor/advocates

Redx

It is extremely useful to prove that you were not the driver at the time , in any court case , in any nation ! Regardless !

The point to focus on is that the claimant must prove their claim , or fail , especially because POFA does not apply yet in Scotland

The claimant plus the sheriff could decide 51% to 49% that you were the likely driver , given that 8 PCNs are involved. I hope that your V5C is up to date ? Because not updating it is a common cause of missing documents. A SAR to the DPO at ECP should reveal where they went etc

But do not focus on the procedures South of the border ( the wall ) , we don't have guides or experience for claims in Scotland , it's relatively new , although there have been a few cases this year on here , plus the infamous Carly Mackie case a few years ago !!

You may have many questions , but few people who come here will know the answers , apart from common sense

It's a by product if devolution , like the COVID rules , different for each nation

Good luck

Gullzter

Redx said:

It is extremely useful to prove that you were not the driver at the time , in any court case , in any nation ! Regardless !

The point to focus on is that the claimant must prove their claim , or fail , especially because POFA does not apply yet in Scotland

The claimant plus the sheriff could decide 51% to 49% that you were the likely driver , given that 8 PCNs are involved. I hope that your V5C is up to date ? Because not updating it is a common cause of missing documents. A SAR to the DPO at ECP should reveal where they went etc

But do not focus on the procedures South of the border ( the wall ) , we don't have guides or experience for claims in Scotland , it's relatively new , although there have been a few cases this year on here , plus the infamous Carly Mackie case a few years ago !!

You may have many questions , but few people who come here will know the answers , apart from common sense

It's a by product if devolution , like the COVID rules , different for each nation

Good luck

Thanks again for the response, I won't be able to prove anything without the given dates, which I'd require a SAR by the sounds of it.
From my research so far, and you rightly mention it seems they'd need to prove who was driving at the time, if I flat out deny responsibility of being the driver, they wouldn't be able to prove this and in Scotland I wouldn't have to name who may have been driving, if I have got that correct?

So if I go ahead and mention all the above, and at the same time I request SAR from the courts aswell as the claimant, or would it be worthwhile just disregarding the SAR in the hope the claim gets thrown out instantly as I have never received any PCNs and there's no evidence I was the driver? 
Ps the V5 would have been registered at the correct address.