New Gas Boiler

Archergirl

Reed_Richards said:

I would get a boiler with Opentherm (standard) capability and a controller to match.  This will give you the best control and hopefully the best economy of operation as Opentherm does both Weather Compensation and Load Compensation.  

We have Hive is that the same thing?

[Deleted User]

Archergirl said:

Reed_Richards said:

I would get a boiler with Opentherm (standard) capability and a controller to match.  This will give you the best control and hopefully the best economy of operation as Opentherm does both Weather Compensation and Load Compensation.  

We have Hive is that the same thing?

It depends on the model. Hive Active 2 appears not to support the Opentherm protocol. Opentherm requires a low voltage connection to the boiler or to a Bridge. Weather compensation requires an external device unless the thermostat is using generic weather data (not as accurate).

https://www.expertreviews.co.uk/home/1408780/hive-active-heating-2-review

mysteryUser

As some have already mentioned, it's generally a very expensive exercise getting a boiler from British Gas. Checking some local independents is highly recommended. 

A couple of years ago, I had two choices - for the exact same boiler. 

British Gas: 
£4014
5 Year Warranty
Zero Included Annual Services

Local Independant:
£2316
10 Year Warranty
4 Included Annual Services


The local firm also offered 0% finance over 1 year, not quite a long as British Gas which were offering 5 years. 

Factoring in the inclusive services and the better warranty, British Gas were pretty much twice the price. 

I went for a Worcester Bosch i30, which does 30kW hot water and 24kW heating output. Mainly with the thinking that in the future it may be needing to feed 2 showers at the same time. As you have an electric shower, you can go for a smaller one. All my radiators as it stands are a little under 10kW output total. 

BUFF

mysteryUser said:

As some have already mentioned, it's generally a very expensive exercise getting a boiler from British Gas. Checking some local independents is highly recommended. 

A couple of years ago, I had two choices - for the exact same boiler. 

British Gas: 
£4014
5 Year Warranty
Zero Included Annual Services

Local Independant:
£2316
10 Year Warranty
4 Included Annual Services


The local firm also offered 0% finance over 1 year, not quite a long as British Gas which were offering 5 years. 

Factoring in the inclusive services and the better warranty, British Gas were pretty much twice the price. 

20 years ago I used to be a supplier in the heating/plumbing industry & 1 of my customers had a story to tell:
he quoted for a CH system, BG quoted for same system at much higher price.
Householder (older person) decided to go for BG because "well, it's BG".
BG subcontracted my customer to fit the system, householder initially very confused & then very angry that he had paid over the odds for literally the same work by the same installer .... 

Cressida100

Sorry to jump on your thread @Archergirl. I've just received the following quote for British gas to replace my Potterton F60 (25 years old) as below. I am also going to get some local firms to quote. 

This is what they sent and I would really appreciate some advice as to whether this is a reasonable cost for this work or whether it is ridiculous. My house is a 1950s semi-detached. 

Your Boiler Worcester Bosch Greenstar 30Si Compact ErP £1,199.00 Your Installation Essentials Your Installation and associated work
We will replace your existing boiler with a new combi boiler in the same place or relocate it to your airing cupboard. We will also arrange for the materials to be delivered at a convenient time.
During the installation we will connect all the pipe work to your new boiler and carry out any flue related building work as detailed in your technical specification. We will adapt your existing system to make it compatible with the new boiler and where possible we will remove your water tanks and cylinder if they are no longer required. We will complete your installation to the highest quality as well as removing all waste material from your property.
Once the work is complete we will make sure all the relevant certification is sent to you. £2,209.82 We will install your horizontal flue including any necessary flue accessories to the correct standards £199.00
We will connect the boiler condense waste pipe to a suitable internal waste pipe £99.00 Worcester Keyless Filling Link £26.00
System water treatment & Systemcleanse £99.00
Electrical Work We will have an electrician on site who will carry out the electrical connections to your boiler to the required regulations £199.00 Your Boiler Aftercare British Gas 5 Year Warranty - Year one includes repairs for your boiler controls and central heating. Years two to five includes repairs for your boiler only (subject to a chargeable annual service on the boiler) £0.00 Customer Information Socket and See electrical test carried out. Result satisfactory £0.00 No asbestos identified (see Installation Notes and Terms and Conditions for further details) £0.0
Hive Active Heating Hive Thermostat + 6 Free Months of Hive Heating Plus Service (Single Zone Only) with Professional Installation Included For Free £179.00
Radiators and Valves Install
Small Radiator £177.00
Install Medium Radiator ( x5) £1,195.00
Install Designer Radiator £407.00
Water Treatment Install 22mm
System Filter £159.00

Your British Gas Quotation C488173280 Boiler £1,199.00
Installation Essentials £2,831.82
Tailored Extras £2,117.00

Total gross price (inc. VAT) £6,147.82

Our offers for you December 2021 Flash Sale £250.00 £50 off your Magnetic System Filter £50.00

jimjames

Over £6k sounds extortionate but that's the BG price. If you're changing to combi then it will involve more pipework changes as already mentioned. Why do you need to change from standard to combi, is there a reason?

It also looks like you're paying for new radiators, are they to replace existing or new ones? You will find a local plumber to do that much cheaper than BG.

QrizB

Agreed, £6k seems a bit OTT. As jimjames points out, you're also paying £1600 for six new radiators. Do you need those?

There's a plumber on eBay who will supply and fit that boiler for £1765 if you're in or near Birmingham (converting from conventional to combi will be extra, I imagine):
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283983085498

But if you're happy with a conventional boiler, you can get a Greenstar 18Ri for £1422:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283983085489

BUFF

Cressida100 said:

Sorry to jump on your thread @Archergirl. I've just received the following quote for British gas to replace my Potterton F60 (25 years old) as below. I am also going to get some local firms to quote. 

This is what they sent and I would really appreciate some advice as to whether this is a reasonable cost for this work or whether it is ridiculous. My house is a 1950s semi-detached. 

Your Boiler Worcester Bosch Greenstar 30Si Compact ErP £1,199.00 Your Installation Essentials Your Installation and associated work
We will replace your existing boiler with a new combi boiler in the same place or relocate it to your airing cupboard. We will also arrange for the materials to be delivered at a convenient time.
During the installation we will connect all the pipe work to your new boiler and carry out any flue related building work as detailed in your technical specification. We will adapt your existing system to make it compatible with the new boiler and where possible we will remove your water tanks and cylinder if they are no longer required. We will complete your installation to the highest quality as well as removing all waste material from your property.
Once the work is complete we will make sure all the relevant certification is sent to you. £2,209.82 We will install your horizontal flue including any necessary flue accessories to the correct standards £199.00
We will connect the boiler condense waste pipe to a suitable internal waste pipe £99.00 Worcester Keyless Filling Link £26.00
System water treatment & Systemcleanse £99.00
Electrical Work We will have an electrician on site who will carry out the electrical connections to your boiler to the required regulations £199.00 Your Boiler Aftercare British Gas 5 Year Warranty - Year one includes repairs for your boiler controls and central heating. Years two to five includes repairs for your boiler only (subject to a chargeable annual service on the boiler) £0.00 Customer Information Socket and See electrical test carried out. Result satisfactory £0.00 No asbestos identified (see Installation Notes and Terms and Conditions for further details) £0.0
Hive Active Heating Hive Thermostat + 6 Free Months of Hive Heating Plus Service (Single Zone Only) with Professional Installation Included For Free £179.00

You can get up to a 10 year warranty on that boiler if fitted by a Worcester approved installer https://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/products/boilers/directory/greenstar-si-compact

Afaik Hive can't communicate with the Worcester EMS bus (similar to Opentherm but proprietary) so you won't be able to eke out the last bit of ultimate efficiency from the boiler unless using a Worcester EasyControl. 

gsmh

Tado can work with many boilers in BUS mode - it is the only third party smart thermostat which can work with the proprietary Vaillant eBUS protocol, for example. Have a look at the installer manual to see how many boilers it works with.

When a thermostat works in BUS mode it modulates the boiler - which means if a small amount of heat is needed to bring the room/home up to the required temperature, the boiler will fire up at a lower rate to do the job. The boiler output will vary according to the required temperature. Thermostats which don't work with the BUS will simply turn the boiler on at full power or off. Much less sophisticated. Tado also has a geofencing mode which actually works and is 100% reliable. When you leave the house the heating will turn off, or down, according to what you've set it to do and turn on as you approach home on the way back. For me that is invaluable - but it does incur a small yearly charge.

I personally wouldn't touch Hive. I have used Nest and found it to be supremely unreliable and the geofencing worked 20% of the time. It also doesn't work in BUS mode unless paired with an OpenTherm boiler.

[Deleted User]

BUFF said:

Cressida100 said:

Sorry to jump on your thread @Archergirl. I've just received the following quote for British gas to replace my Potterton F60 (25 years old) as below. I am also going to get some local firms to quote. 

This is what they sent and I would really appreciate some advice as to whether this is a reasonable cost for this work or whether it is ridiculous. My house is a 1950s semi-detached. 

Your Boiler Worcester Bosch Greenstar 30Si Compact ErP £1,199.00 Your Installation Essentials Your Installation and associated work
We will replace your existing boiler with a new combi boiler in the same place or relocate it to your airing cupboard. We will also arrange for the materials to be delivered at a convenient time.
During the installation we will connect all the pipe work to your new boiler and carry out any flue related building work as detailed in your technical specification. We will adapt your existing system to make it compatible with the new boiler and where possible we will remove your water tanks and cylinder if they are no longer required. We will complete your installation to the highest quality as well as removing all waste material from your property.
Once the work is complete we will make sure all the relevant certification is sent to you. £2,209.82 We will install your horizontal flue including any necessary flue accessories to the correct standards £199.00
We will connect the boiler condense waste pipe to a suitable internal waste pipe £99.00 Worcester Keyless Filling Link £26.00
System water treatment & Systemcleanse £99.00
Electrical Work We will have an electrician on site who will carry out the electrical connections to your boiler to the required regulations £199.00 Your Boiler Aftercare British Gas 5 Year Warranty - Year one includes repairs for your boiler controls and central heating. Years two to five includes repairs for your boiler only (subject to a chargeable annual service on the boiler) £0.00 Customer Information Socket and See electrical test carried out. Result satisfactory £0.00 No asbestos identified (see Installation Notes and Terms and Conditions for further details) £0.0
Hive Active Heating Hive Thermostat + 6 Free Months of Hive Heating Plus Service (Single Zone Only) with Professional Installation Included For Free £179.00

You can get up to a 10 year warranty on that boiler if fitted by a Worcester approved installer https://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/products/boilers/directory/greenstar-si-compact

Afaik Hive can't communicate with the Worcester EMS bus (similar to Opentherm but proprietary) so you won't be able to eke out the last bit of ultimate efficiency from the boiler unless using a Worcester EasyControl. 

Technology has moved on: whether these devices are a good idea is another matter. The Opentherm protocol is not a fixed standard and it is up to the boiler manufacturer which protocols it decides to use. For example, when there is a HW demand then Opentherm will demand 93C which should be restricted by the TMaxSet set in the boiler. Not all boilers restrict the heating demand as they should. Boilers from Dutch manufacturers (eg; Atag and Intergas) are usually fully Opentherm compliant (as it is mandated in The Netherlands):

https://myboiler.com/opentherm/worcester-bosch-opentherm/