Cheap petrol & diesel – official MSE guide discussion

Belenus

Some interesting points above.

We are both retired and only run one car. We normally do about 5,000 miles per annum, a mixture of short local trips and a few long journeys. Our mileage has halved since Covid struck.

Our car is a petrol BMW Series1 bought nearly new six years ago. It has now done about 26,000 miles.

We hope is will last us at least another six years, and maybe a lot longer so it will hopefully be a long time before we have to replace it and choose between electric and ICE.

If things change significantly sooner than that we may well reconsider.

Herzlos makes a good point above with this:

The obvious option though is to drive an EV for the 50 weeks of the year you aren't on holiday, and use some of the money saved on fuel to hire an ICE vehicle for the holiday. It's a good opportunity to revisit how you look at motoring.

We could possibly save money now by selling our car and using taxis and hire cars when required but we like the convenience of an instantly available car on our doorstep.

[Deleted User]

Ebe_Scrooge said:

[Deleted User] said:

Mine was certainly a lot cheaper than a fossil car.  Are you comparing like-for-like?  I have no doubt it was cheaper than a Ferrari.  But cheaper than a Dacia Sandero, Kia Picanto?  And was it cheap because you got some sort of a subsidy/contribution?

Battery had an 8 year warranty so no worries there. Blimey, if I bought a new car and it only lasted 8 years, I'd be furious.  I normally buy a car when its 6-8 years old, and fully expect to get another good 6-8 years out of it before things start to go seriously wrong.

Oh, and it's so convenient. No detours to petrol stations and standing around in the cold. No searching for cheap fuel. Just plug in now and then when I get home, or for free at various places.  And no being able to do 500 mile trips with only the slight inconvenience of a 5-minute pit-stop to refuel once (if at all).

A couple of thoughts above.  Yes, electric cars are ideal for some usage patterns, and do have several advantages over ICE in some situations.  But they've still got a way to go before they can realistically fully replace ICE.

As a slight aside - what about lorries (especially long-distance HGVs).  What about shipping (whether we're talking passenger ferries or the massive supertankers that cross from one side of the globe to the other).  Can't see them ever going electric - unless they install nuclear power like a lot of the Navy warships/submarines have.

Unless you usage pattern is fairly extreme then an EV is already better than a fossil car.

You could pay for a bigger battery, or to have a hybrid and all the maintenance and hassle that comes with it, all to save a few minutes a year.

The real problem is properties without driveways. The government needs to address that.

Mew15z

Having had several electric cars a and done over 65000 miles driving one I feel I have some experience in the area. Watching your range plumet on a vert cold wet winters day was scary at times. Back in the day most public charge paint were free and savings substantial though. Not any longer. 

The irony is that I don't have one anymore. The only thing I miss is the instant heat of the blowers. 

It no longer suited my requirements as I now do less thank 6k a year. The cost benefit of having an electric car really suffers the less miles you do. 

Also some advise for those who don't do a lot of miles, leaving your electric car for longer periods without discharging or cycling the battery really damages the battery health. I was shocked on the impact of lockdown then the dealership produced the battery health chart at service time. 

The only other observation is that increased electricity costs can sneak up on the unaware. Where as filling up at the fuel station is an up front cost done regularly charging your car at home is not. 

motorguy

born_again said:

motorguy said:

born_again said:

[Deleted User] said:

Oh, and it's so convenient. No detours to petrol stations and standing around in the cold. No searching for cheap fuel. Just plug in now and then when I get home, or for free at various places.

I'm never going back to fossil cars now.

Awaits the  long trip to go on holiday & either fast chargers are not working or full & you have to wait for them to come free.. Not forgetting the excessive costs for using these.

Would love a EV. But to buy the same car as I have now, which does have a EV version. The extra cost means I have 8 years worth of petrol on my annual mileage to play with before I would be spending more than the cost of the EV. And that is not factoring in the cost of any electricity to charge the car.

How much of an issue is that really though?  We did two 1,000 mile return trips over the summer and we found we stopped every 2.5 hours or so for a break anyway, so wouldnt have been a hardship to plug in while we were taking a comfort break anyway.

I've never really seen anyone of them all occupied either.

The point was @[Deleted User] point on convenience. It works both ways. Is charging a EV on a trip more convenient that filling a ICE? Searching for cheap fuel? We all know that various charging companies charge different amounts, so no change there. 

Would love a EV, but financially it does not work for me.

Yes, i guess its often not just about getting to a destination and staying there, its about moving about when you're there.

motorguy

Belenus said:

Some interesting points above.

We are both retired and only run one car. We normally do about 5,000 miles per annum, a mixture of short local trips and a few long journeys. Our mileage has halved since Covid struck.

Our car is a petrol BMW Series1 bought nearly new six years ago. It has now done about 26,000 miles.

We hope is will last us at least another six years, and maybe a lot longer so it will hopefully be a long time before we have to replace it and choose between electric and ICE.

If things change significantly sooner than that we may well reconsider.

Herzlos makes a good point above with this:

The obvious option though is to drive an EV for the 50 weeks of the year you aren't on holiday, and use some of the money saved on fuel to hire an ICE vehicle for the holiday. It's a good opportunity to revisit how you look at motoring.

We could possibly save money now by selling our car and using taxis and hire cars when required but we like the convenience of an instantly available car on our doorstep.

We're similar relative to the miles we do (and we run a 1 series also as our main car!)

Like yourselves, we see no immediate reason to change it as it was bought new, is just coming 3 years old and will easily do us another 10+ years.  

I would imagine if you're not changing your car soon anyway, by the time you do, ranges and charging capability will have increased enough for it not to be such an issue for the two weeks of the year that would concern you currently.

Herzlos

motorguy said:

Yes, i guess its often not just about getting to a destination and staying there, its about moving about when you're there.

That's the sticking point we've got at the moment. Our holiday pattern is usually to head to a caravan on the coast for a week or so, which involves a huge motorway drive (which is fine, we stop often enough anyway with 2 young kids), and then use the caravan as a base for day trips. Recharging overnight at the caravan will be difficult (likely relying on a 2kw granny charger hanging out the window) so we'd need to try and find destinations with chargers. Some do already and the uptake is increasing constantly; most supermarkets have them if we're stuck.

But that's literally only for 1-2 weeks of the year, and the rest of the time we're at a home base and will be able to recharge overnight.

837843

22/2 22. If you have a Virgin 2% current a/c or one of their applicable credit cards you can get 10% cashback when qualifying for 7p/litre off. If your total comes to £80+ pay 2 x £40. Ends 23/2 22. 

gropinginthedark

[Deleted User] said:

Belenus said:

Petriix said:

The best way to save money on diesel and petrol is to avoid buying it altogether. My EV is running at 1.1p per mile over 10k miles this year. That's saved me about £1000 towards the cost of upgrading my car.

What is the total cost of ownership of your electric car compared to a comparable fuel car?

Typically, electric cars are more expensive to purchase than comparable fuel cars even taking into account any government grants.

How many years of cheaper running costs will it take to recover that higher purchase cost of electric cars?

Will the battery last that long before an expensive replacement is required.

I'm not yet convinced that an electric car will save me money.

If may do so for you and others.

Mine was certainly a lot cheaper than a fossil car.

The initial cost was higher, but electricity costs about 1/5th to 1/6th as much as fuel for similar mileage. Well, that was an original Leaf so it will be even better in a more efficient car.

Maintenance costs are also much lower. No radiator, no pump, no alternator, no oil, no spark plugs, no exhaust, no catalytic converter, none of the associated sensors or controllers, no starter motor etc. Even the brakes get less wear due to a lot of braking being regen.

Battery had an 8 year warranty so no worries there. In practice the batteries have proven to outlive the rest of the car in most cases. The newer ones are even better. Plus you get a very nice car, very smooth and quiet, very easy to drive, plenty of power.

Oh, and it's so convenient. No detours to petrol stations and standing around in the cold. No searching for cheap fuel. Just plug in now and then when I get home, or for free at various places.

I'm never going back to fossil cars now.

Yesterday I parked next to a supermarket EV charging station.  There was a couple sitting in the car, waiting for a recharge.  40 minutes later when I'd finished shopping they were still there....  It takes just a few mins to get a full tank of petrol (= 500 miles, Electric car range is typically 130-300 miles). 

gropinginthedark

Ebe_Scrooge said:

Another consideration, which not all drivers realise, is that any electrical equipment will affect fuel economy.  

I can't find it now but the Tesla web site had a "range estimator" where you could tweak things like ambient temperature (batteries less efficient in the cold and cabin heating may be needed or when it's hot, air-con), wheel size, headlights on,  raining (wipers on) etc and see how every change affected the total range.  It could make a very significant difference, the worst case I could get was a range reduction from around 250 to 200miles. The same parameters apply to a petrol/diesel vehicle but less obvious without the range anxiety electric-only vehicles bring.

Another economy issue is speed. In the 1973 fuel crisis the national speed limit was reduce from 70 to 50 mph which, I believe, saves about 20% of the fuel that would be used at 70mph. I tried this myself recently and increased my mpg from around 60 to 75 (I drive a large hybrid)

Bigwheels1111

Unless things change drastically I’m keeping my diesel car.
Its 6 in September and will only have 18.5k on the clock.
The car is paid for and reliable, a service and mot once a year and that’s it.
To get an EV, I would need £30k minimum and a very long charging cable as on third floor.
Plus 12m waiting list if I was lucky.
I will make a decision weather to change or not in 2029 just before the world goes mad.