Cheap petrol & diesel – official MSE guide discussion

Belenus

Petriix said:

The best way to save money on diesel and petrol is to avoid buying it altogether. My EV is running at 1.1p per mile over 10k miles this year. That's saved me about £1000 towards the cost of upgrading my car.

What is the total cost of ownership of your electric car compared to a comparable fuel car?

Typically, electric cars are more expensive to purchase than comparable fuel cars even taking into account any government grants.

How many years of cheaper running costs will it take to recover that higher purchase cost of electric cars?

Will the battery last that long before an expensive replacement is required.

I'm not yet convinced that an electric car will save me money.

If may do so for you and others.

[Deleted User]

Belenus said:

Petriix said:

The best way to save money on diesel and petrol is to avoid buying it altogether. My EV is running at 1.1p per mile over 10k miles this year. That's saved me about £1000 towards the cost of upgrading my car.

What is the total cost of ownership of your electric car compared to a comparable fuel car?

Typically, electric cars are more expensive to purchase than comparable fuel cars even taking into account any government grants.

How many years of cheaper running costs will it take to recover that higher purchase cost of electric cars?

Will the battery last that long before an expensive replacement is required.

I'm not yet convinced that an electric car will save me money.

If may do so for you and others.

Mine was certainly a lot cheaper than a fossil car.

The initial cost was higher, but electricity costs about 1/5th to 1/6th as much as fuel for similar mileage. Well, that was an original Leaf so it will be even better in a more efficient car.

Maintenance costs are also much lower. No radiator, no pump, no alternator, no oil, no spark plugs, no exhaust, no catalytic converter, none of the associated sensors or controllers, no starter motor etc. Even the brakes get less wear due to a lot of braking being regen.

Battery had an 8 year warranty so no worries there. In practice the batteries have proven to outlive the rest of the car in most cases. The newer ones are even better. Plus you get a very nice car, very smooth and quiet, very easy to drive, plenty of power.

Oh, and it's so convenient. No detours to petrol stations and standing around in the cold. No searching for cheap fuel. Just plug in now and then when I get home, or for free at various places.

I'm never going back to fossil cars now.

JJ_Egan

What did this car cost ?? and what year bought ??

Ebe_Scrooge

[Deleted User] said:

Mine was certainly a lot cheaper than a fossil car.  Are you comparing like-for-like?  I have no doubt it was cheaper than a Ferrari.  But cheaper than a Dacia Sandero, Kia Picanto?  And was it cheap because you got some sort of a subsidy/contribution?

Battery had an 8 year warranty so no worries there. Blimey, if I bought a new car and it only lasted 8 years, I'd be furious.  I normally buy a car when its 6-8 years old, and fully expect to get another good 6-8 years out of it before things start to go seriously wrong.

Oh, and it's so convenient. No detours to petrol stations and standing around in the cold. No searching for cheap fuel. Just plug in now and then when I get home, or for free at various places.  And no being able to do 500 mile trips with only the slight inconvenience of a 5-minute pit-stop to refuel once (if at all).

A couple of thoughts above.  Yes, electric cars are ideal for some usage patterns, and do have several advantages over ICE in some situations.  But they've still got a way to go before they can realistically fully replace ICE.

As a slight aside - what about lorries (especially long-distance HGVs).  What about shipping (whether we're talking passenger ferries or the massive supertankers that cross from one side of the globe to the other).  Can't see them ever going electric - unless they install nuclear power like a lot of the Navy warships/submarines have.

born_again

[Deleted User] said:

Oh, and it's so convenient. No detours to petrol stations and standing around in the cold. No searching for cheap fuel. Just plug in now and then when I get home, or for free at various places.

I'm never going back to fossil cars now.

Awaits the  long trip to go on holiday & either fast chargers are not working or full & you have to wait for them to come free.. Not forgetting the excessive costs for using these.

Would love a EV. But to buy the same car as I have now, which does have a EV version. The extra cost means I have 8 years worth of petrol on my annual mileage to play with before I would be spending more than the cost of the EV. And that is not factoring in the cost of any electricity to charge the car.

Petriix

Belenus said:

Petriix said:

The best way to save money on diesel and petrol is to avoid buying it altogether. My EV is running at 1.1p per mile over 10k miles this year. That's saved me about £1000 towards the cost of upgrading my car.

What is the total cost of ownership of your electric car compared to a comparable fuel car?

Typically, electric cars are more expensive to purchase than comparable fuel cars even taking into account any government grants.

How many years of cheaper running costs will it take to recover that higher purchase cost of electric cars?

Will the battery last that long before an expensive replacement is required.

I'm not yet convinced that an electric car will save me money.

If may do so for you and others.

My 2005 Peugeot 206sw diesel was on its last legs, would have cost £800 to get through the MOT and was a cat N write off. I was looking at picking up a 3 year old Golf estate diesel for around £12k, with £10k financed. Instead I borrowed £20k (so an additional £10k over the Golf) on my mortgage and got a new MG5 for £23k.

I'm saving £1k per year in fuel costs and around £500 in maintenance and VED. My first service in the MG cost £33 and there is no MOT for 2 more years. I estimate that it will break even vs the Golf over 7 years, with the obvious caveat that the 7 year old MG EV will be worth more than the 10 year old Golf.

People talk about EV batteries 'lasting' as if they suddenly stop working and need total replacement, but that's really not how it works. The batteries are modular, made up of hundreds of individual cells, grouped into modules which can be swapped out relatively easily if required.

The battery in the MG5 is warrantied to have 70% after 7 years but it will realistically be more like 85% at that point if looked after. That means slightly reduced range, not scrappage. The battery will almost certainly outlast the rest of the car, retaining ~ 70% range at 15 years old. Then it will be repurposed and finally recycled.

born_again said:

[Deleted User] said:

Oh, and it's so convenient. No detours to petrol stations and standing around in the cold. No searching for cheap fuel. Just plug in now and then when I get home, or for free at various places.

I'm never going back to fossil cars now.

Awaits the  long trip to go on holiday & either fast chargers are not working or full & you have to wait for them to come free.. Not forgetting the excessive costs for using these.

Would love a EV. But to buy the same car as I have now, which does have a EV version. The extra cost means I have 8 years worth of petrol on my annual mileage to play with before I would be spending more than the cost of the EV. And that is not factoring in the cost of any electricity to charge the car.

Long trips are no issue if you plan properly. You don't have to drive 400 miles in one go, and you can easily break journeys up into manageable legs with plenty of time to charge while you do other things. Unlike refuelling a petrol tank, you don't have to stand there holding a nozzle while an EV charges. 

Herzlos

born_again said:

[Deleted User] said:

Oh, and it's so convenient. No detours to petrol stations and standing around in the cold. No searching for cheap fuel. Just plug in now and then when I get home, or for free at various places.

I'm never going back to fossil cars now.

Awaits the  long trip to go on holiday & either fast chargers are not working or full & you have to wait for them to come free.. Not forgetting the excessive costs for using these.

That's definitely a risk, and will slow down some long haul trips, but it's getting better every generation (the MG5 EV can do 250 miles on a charge).

The obvious option though is to drive an EV for the 50 weeks of the year you aren't on holiday, and use some of the money saved on fuel to hire an ICE vehicle for the holiday. It's a good opportunity to revisit how you look at motoring.

motorguy

Our mileage has dropped dramatically since the COVID lockdowns.  We'd have done 14K and 6K in the two of them and thats down to maybe 4K and 1K, so fuel costs arent really a big consideration for us.  They both only do around 27mpg.

Its likely our next main car will be an electric one, but that will be a fair bit down the line as we dont want / need to change the car we have.

motorguy

born_again said:

[Deleted User] said:

Oh, and it's so convenient. No detours to petrol stations and standing around in the cold. No searching for cheap fuel. Just plug in now and then when I get home, or for free at various places.

I'm never going back to fossil cars now.

Awaits the  long trip to go on holiday & either fast chargers are not working or full & you have to wait for them to come free.. Not forgetting the excessive costs for using these.

Would love a EV. But to buy the same car as I have now, which does have a EV version. The extra cost means I have 8 years worth of petrol on my annual mileage to play with before I would be spending more than the cost of the EV. And that is not factoring in the cost of any electricity to charge the car.

How much of an issue is that really though?  We did two 1,000 mile return trips over the summer and we found we stopped every 2.5 hours or so for a break anyway, so wouldnt have been a hardship to plug in while we were taking a comfort break anyway.

I've never really seen anyone of them all occupied either.

born_again

motorguy said:

born_again said:

[Deleted User] said:

Oh, and it's so convenient. No detours to petrol stations and standing around in the cold. No searching for cheap fuel. Just plug in now and then when I get home, or for free at various places.

I'm never going back to fossil cars now.

Awaits the  long trip to go on holiday & either fast chargers are not working or full & you have to wait for them to come free.. Not forgetting the excessive costs for using these.

Would love a EV. But to buy the same car as I have now, which does have a EV version. The extra cost means I have 8 years worth of petrol on my annual mileage to play with before I would be spending more than the cost of the EV. And that is not factoring in the cost of any electricity to charge the car.

How much of an issue is that really though?  We did two 1,000 mile return trips over the summer and we found we stopped every 2.5 hours or so for a break anyway, so wouldnt have been a hardship to plug in while we were taking a comfort break anyway.

I've never really seen anyone of them all occupied either.

The point was @[Deleted User] point on convenience. It works both ways. Is charging a EV on a trip more convenient that filling a ICE? Searching for cheap fuel? We all know that various charging companies charge different amounts, so no change there. 

Would love a EV, but financially it does not work for me.