3 year old PCN from dark industrial carpark - BW Legal / CPMS Claim

4am_uel

Hi all,

Excited to join the forum with my first ever PCN battle (woo). 3 Years ago on a dark November night in 2018 I parked in a pretty much abandoned industrial estate carpark where I trained gymnastics in one of the warehouses. Unbeknownst to me one day I parked on the wrong side of the carpark that belonged to someone else instead of the gym from 7pm-9pm. It was pitch black and there were no lights in the carpark so I obviously didn't see any signs, and the fact other people parked there also didn't make me second guess anything. Then I get a letter from BW Legal on behalf of Car Park Management Services (CPMS) LTD. I've ignored every letter they've ever sent until I received the below claim form the other week.

I've sent the Acknowledgement of Service today so should have until 28th Dec to file a defense, and have also sent an SaR to CPMS LTD (Is this too late or worth doing?)

It looks like the next thing to do is to start writing a defense, and then after the 28th there will be all the questionnaires and witness statements etc.

It sounds like I will actually have to go to court when defending myself from what I've read on the forums, but now i live in Sweden - would they expect me to come back or would they make accommodations with Zoom etc?

Also if you have any useful advice for my specific case, or know of another case similar id be very appreciative of the help!

KeithP

Hello and welcome.

With a Claim Issue Date of 25th November, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Wednesday 29th December 2021 to file your Defence.

That's over two weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Editted to add:
As I've just noticed you now live in Sweden (thanks @Fruitcake), it may not have been appropriate to file an Acknowledgment of Service and filing a Defence is probably unnecessary. 
See what others think. 

Fruitcake

Send a rectification notice to the DPO of both the PPC and their solicitor instructing them to erase your old details and update it with your new address for service. Make sure you use the word I have underlined.
Include proof of non-photo ID, and proof of your overseas address.

It is still worth sending the SAR, but because you are outside the jurisdiction of the UK courts, you should be safe once you have sent your updated personal details.

Just a technical note, in the UK justice system, defence is spelt with a c not an s. No big deal, but the law is a pedant, so you need to be pedantic in all legal matters.

Use the template defence in the sticky Announcement threads. Amen points 2 and 3 and show us just those two paragraphs (or any other points you use.
In the para where you say you deny liability, you should state that you are outside the UK jurisdiction because you live overseas. Make sure everything you send has your overseas address, and repeat, repeat, repeat that you are outside the jurisdiction of UK courts.

Do not use a UK address for correspondence. Just make sure you have a method for post to be forwarded to you abroad.

Umkomaas

Do you intend returning to live in England or Wales in the 6 year period ending after the date of the PCN (12/11/2024)?

Fruitcake

Umkomaas said:

Do you intend returning to live in England or Wales in the 6 year period ending after the date of the PCN (12/11/2024)?

I would suggest that the OP doesn't need to answer that question. The only thing the PPC and their agents needs to know is that the defendant lives abroad.

Following on from Keith's comment, did you use your address in Sweden when you did the AoS? If so, the court process should spot this and lob it out at some point, but you should tell anyone and everyone, starting with the rectification notice, where you now live at each and every opportunity.

KeithP

Fruitcake said:

Umkomaas said:

Do you intend returning to live in England or Wales in the 6 year period ending after the date of the PCN (12/11/2024)?

I would suggest that the OP doesn't need to answer that question. The only thing the PPC and their agents needs to know is that the defendant lives abroad.

That's a tricky one.
We have seen where a Claimant has ploughed on, sending everything to a known 'old' address, and obtained a Default Judgment without the Defendant's knowledge.
If the OP does return to the UK within that six years, things might be difficult for him.

I don't think there is an easy answer. 

Coupon-mad

I think because they have acknowledged the claim that confirms it was served.  Therefore they must defend.

Fruitcake

Agreed, but if the OP does not send the rectification notice, the PPC and the courts will definitely use the old address anyway. If the defendant informs the claimant of their new address via a rectification notice and proof of ID, but still uses the old address, then that would constitute unreasonable behaviour.
 
The OP needs to tell us what address they used for the AoS (assuming it requires a residential address. I don't know, I've never been to court).
If a UK address was used, this will also need some sort of rectification notice.

D_P_Dance

They have added what appears to be an extra unlawful amount for debt collection. This amounts to double recovery and Judges all over the country are dismissing these spurious additions. Indeed some judges have dismissed entire claims because of this. Read this and complain to Trading Standards and your MP,

Excel v Wilkinson

At the Bradford County Court, District Judge Claire Jackson (now HHJ Jackson, a Specialist Civil Circuit Judge) decided to hear a 'test case' a few months ago, where £60 had been added to a parking charge despite Judges up and down the country repeatedly disallowing that sum and warning parking firms not to waste court time with such spurious claims.   That case was Excel v Wilkinson: G4QZ465V, heard in July 2020 and leave to appeal was refused and that route was not pursued.  The Judge concluded that such claims are proceedings with 'an improper collateral purpose'.   This Judge - and others who have since copied her words and struck dozens of cases out in late 2020 and into 2021 - went into significant detail and concluded that parking operators (such as this Claimant) are seeking to circumvent CPR 27.14 as well as breaching the Consumer Rights Act 2015.   DJ Hickinbottom has recently struck more cases out in that court area, stating: ''I find that striking out this claim is the only appropriate manner in which the disapproval of the court can be shown''.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/16qovzulab1szem/G4QZ465V%20Excel%20v%20Wilkinson.pdf?dl=0

However, a VCS appealed this so it may not apply in all cases, read this

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ntksx9g7177ahyg/VCS v Percy v1 Amendments (2).pdf?dl=0Also read this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6279348/witness-statements-2-transcripts-re-parking-firms-false-costs-recorder-cohen-qc-judgment-2021/p1

Also consider complaining to The SRA about the solicitor, if one is involved They are fully aware of the unlawful nature of most of thse additions yet persist in adding them..

https://www.sra.org.uk/consumers/problems/

Umkomaas

If the OP has no intention of returning to live in this country then a CCJ is probably neither here nor there for them. It was just that I was attempting to elicit, then advise from there. 

4am_uel

Thank you all I'm just catching up on the replies now! Super helpful, I didn't think the forum would be so active ill check back more often now. KeithP why do you say filling a defence is probably unnecessary? How else would things progress? I dont think they would just write off my fine would they?
KeithP said:

Editted to add:
As I've just noticed you now live in Sweden (thanks @Fruitcake), it may not have been appropriate to file an Acknowledgment of Service and filing a Defence is probably unnecessary. 
See what others think.