UKPC Court Claim -Not parked correctly within the markings of the bay or space

Smurfyxx

Hi Guys,

Complete newbie here! - I've read the Newbies thread multiple times and I've followed the steps relevant to my case. Im now at the stage where i need to write up a defense and could really use some guidance if possible. I filed my acknowledgement on 24th November so ive worked out i have roughly until 22nd December to email my defense over. 

Apologies in advance for the essay! 

For background, i have two PCNs from 5 - 51/2 years ago for "not being parked correctly within the markings of a bay or space". This occurred on a residential car park where i lived at the time. On both occasions, someone was parked in my allocated space and there were no visitors spaces available. There was no where to safely park my car in the surrounding areas due to the location being surrounded by only office blocks (with closed off car parks) and A-roads. My only option at the time was to park next to a curb in an open space within the residential car park. This space was not blocking any other cars, nor was it blocking an entrance or exit. 

There was signage near to where i parked, however the one occasion it was night time (clearly shown on the pictures i received from my SAR), the picture of the sign was taken with a camera using flash as the sign was not visible in the dark. On the second occasion, another car was parked in front of the sign and therefore blocking it from view (which is also proven in the photos received from my SAR). 

The pictures clearly show PCNs were placed on my car windshield however these were not there when i returned to my car. I had absolutely no idea i had these tickets until i received threatening letters from DCBL to my new address around 5 months ago(they sent original PCNs but to my moms old address so i didn't receive these either). I spoke to my old flat mate recently and she said she also had 2 PCNs but also no knowledge until the debt collector letters came though years later. The only difference is that she panicked and paid DCBL when they sent the LBC. So, I'm not sure if the parking attendant was just a complete a*se and removed the windshield PCNs after issuing them, or if they were removed by whoever was parked in my space. Either way, I did not receive them. 

So with the above in mind, my angle for a defense would be the poor signage, i was also wondering if the term "bay or space" could be loosely interpreted because technically i was parking in a "space" it just wasn't marked off with any lines. There wasn't a sign that said "DO NOT PARK HERE". 

I'm struggling to find any sort of supporting evidence for my claims, apart from the photos UKPC sent over. I emailed my old letting agent asking for a copy of my tenancy agreement and i haven't had a response. As this was over 5 years ago i had no idea i would need to keep such documents. I live almost 3 hours away from where the PCNs were received too so its not like i can just pop over there. 

 I'm going to have a go of putting my defense together at some point today and ill post it to this thread. I would really appreciate any advice as i honestly feel so underqualified and a little intimated by the whole process.  

p.s. what does the court letter mean by "the contract entitles the claimant to damages"?

KeithP

Hello and welcome.

What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?

And by the way... there is no letter 's' in the word Defence.  

Smurfyxx

Haha thank you, im using my work laptop and for some reason the spell check brings back all sorts. I thought it didn’t look right 😂. 

I got it wrong too; my issue date is 24th November and I filed my acknowledgment on 26th November. 

Sorry, having one of those days today!!

KeithP

Smurfyxx said:

...my issue date is 24th November and I filed my acknowledgment on 26th November. 

With a Claim Issue Date of 24th November, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service on 26th November, you have until 4pm on Wednesday 29th December 2021 to file your Defence.

That's three weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Fruitcake

What did your lease/AST/property rental agreement say about parking, PPCs, PCNs, paying PPCs, and court. What it didn't say is just as important. Did it mention the right to quiet enjoyment?

What happened when you complained to your landlord/the landowner? This is Plan A, and it is never too late to get a landowner cancellation.

I wouldn't put it past a PPC operative to park in a resident's bay so they can issue a ticket for parking elsewhere.
The PPC failed to do their job and keep your space clear. By (the PPC) allowing another car to park in your demised space, they have frustrated any alleged contract you might have with them. The signs form the alleged contract (but cannot override, amend, or remove your existing rights to park), but this is void for impossibility because you were prevented from complying with the Ts and Cs on the signs.

D_P_Dance

Read these and complain to your MP>
 
http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html

https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/forum/residential-letting-questions/1053920-private-parking-companies

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/324523-ukpc-liable-for-trespass-success/

Coupon-mad

Please don't put the word 'curb' spelt like that, into the draft defence and please edit it above to the right UK spelling. Kerb.

I really want to help but the grammar pedant in me stopped reading at that Americanism. It's as grating as 'windshield' and 'parking lot'.  Don't use those words either please, and we will assist further when we see your draft paras 2 and 3.

Smurfyxx

Thanks all for your responses, and again... sorry for the spelling  

I've contacted the letting agents and asked for a copy of my old tenancy agreement; I spoke to a lady on the phone who explained they had merged with another company and don’t have copies of their old files but she said she will look for me…. I don’t have much faith. As for the landowner, I have no idea who this is. The letting agent didn’t know and I’m struggling to find the information on google. 

I feel so stupid by not keeping a copy of the tenancy agreement! It was such a long time ago and I’ve moved 3 times since then. I could kick myself!

Le_Kirk

Smurfyxx said:

As for the landowner, I have no idea who this is. The letting agent didn’t know and I’m struggling to find the information on google. 

Check out posts by @Umkomaas who regularly posts this information.

Umkomaas

Le_Kirk said:

Smurfyxx said:

As for the landowner, I have no idea who this is. The letting agent didn’t know and I’m struggling to find the information on google. 

Check out posts by @Umkomaas who regularly posts this information.

Here you go!

SOME IDEAS ON DETERMINING WHO OWNS THE LAND 

1. Google searches

2. If a retail park, check on any signage which lists the on-site outlets

3. Ask retailers on the site if there is a managing agent

4. Ask retailers on the site to whom do they pay rent

5. Contact the local authority and ask who pays the non-domestic/business rate for the car park (some councils have a spreadsheet on their website)

6. Contact the local Valuation Office and ask if they know. They often have a website which might provide the information 

7. Contact The Land Registry and for around £3 they should be able to provide definitive detail

8. If you haven't already done so, give us the name of the car park, we may have seen other cases there. 

Smurfyxx

Thank you @Umkomaas , I will certainly do some digging and see if i can find out who the managing agents or land owners are. 

In the meantime, I’ve drafted a defence (got the spelling right this time!)... could someone please advise if this would be ok to submit? Should I add anything in here to state that I was unable to adhere to their supposed Ts n Cs as my allocated space had been taken by someone else?

2.       It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper and driver of the vehicle in question but liability is denied. 

3.       At the material times, the Defendant returned home to find another car parked in her allocated space. Due to the lack of additional visitors’ spaces and lack of safe parking within the surrounding area the Defendant had no choice to park in an unmarked space within the confinements of the secure car park. The space in question is regularly used by other residents within the building and parking in this area does not cause obstruction to any entrance or exit nor does it block any of the residential marked bays.

4.     The Defendant was unaware of any alleged PCNs for the material dates, 20/02/2016 and 30/07/2016 until she received threatening letters at her home address 5 years later. Photo evidence taken at the time suggests PCNs were placed on the Defendants vehicle, however these were not there when she returned. Both NTCs were sent to her previous home address, which was over 130 miles away and not forwarded on.

5.     In addition, it is denied that the Claimant's signage sets out the terms in a sufficiently clear manner which would be capable of binding any reasonable person reading them. The sign itself is located in a poorly lit location, below eye level which not only renders it unreadable in the dark, but is also regularly blocked by other parked vehicles. Of which, these circumstances both apply.