Advantage of having smart meters

Astria

agentcain said:

Keep_pedalling said:

agentcain said:

Keep_pedalling said:

agentcain said:

wittynamegoeshere said:

littlemoney said:

wittynamegoeshere said:

Why would anyone would want to buy other equipment, muck about with meters or keep spreadsheets to do the thing that a free thing provided by your supplier does better than anything else?

I'd rather put my time and effort into things that are actually worth caring about.

I don't want another organisation knowing when I am or not at home by tracking my usage. I am yet to be assured of the security of something that sends such data.

Do you have a phone?

A car?

Walk down a street?

Use the internet?

There are far bigger privacy issues to worry about.  I couldn't care less if some mysterious shadowy figure can work out how many cups of tea I've had per day.

It's just internet conspiracy nonsense.  Care about what's worth caring about.

On a practical level, no the smart meter does absolutely nothing for the monetary benefit of the consumer. If anything, their costs are passed onto them. 

Those of us charging or EVs and home battery systems at very cheap off peak rates would have to disagree with you on that point.

How does a "smart" meter help you with that? A simple notification on your phone would work wonders. 

Plus I don't consider the niche market of EVs and home storage to be for the benefit of everyone. Only those who can afford them.  Yet everyone's paying for the meters.

So exactly how would a phone notification help me get 5p a kWh between specific times of the day? 

Apart from those niche markets, smart meters are a much better and cheaper solution in providing E7 type tariffs than twin dumb meters. Might not help existing homes but will be good for all electric new homes. 

The tariff pricing changes on your supplier's side, nothing to do with your meters. If your supplier tells you that you are now consuming price X per kWh, then you make the decision of whether to plug in your car, your washing machine etc.

How are meters helping make this cheaper? The twin dumb meters might have a 2nd circuit feeding storage heaters, a boiler, the car etc. However all this can nowadays be automated with bespoke switchers, e.g. a ZigBee relay. Many car chargers are also IoT enabled. If you are looking to automate consumption, a "smart" meter is anything but. 

I didn't have twin dumb meters - I had a single meter that had 2 counters inside. I believe the switch between day rate and night rate was done via an RF signal rather than a time clock so could be modified at any time. This could quite easily get 5p a kWh between specific times of the day. Considering how many millions has already been poured into smart meters and how many millions still needs to be spent to replace or upgrade all the already obsolete smart meters out there, you can hardly call them a cheap solution.

[Deleted User]

Astria said:

QrizB said:

You'll be pleased to learn, then, that this is pretty much what happens. You the customer get to choose whether your meters report half-hourly, daily or monthly.

https://help.bulb.co.uk/hc/en-us/articles/360005136951-Choosing-how-often-your-smart-meter-sends-readings

https://www.ovoenergy.com/help/monthly-bills-statements

(OVO suggest hourly is an option too.)

Some say that whatever you choose, the meter will still "phone home" and will still report your usage every 30 minutes, but it's then only stored every hour, day, week, whatever.

Others say people have proven that the meter does "communicate" regularly throughout the day, but they've not actually proven what data is transferred as it's all encrypted, they just assume it's usage data.

Smart meters are polled once a day by suppliers for daily and 30 minute usage data. The meter provides an index reading and a data XML file. Third-parties, like Bulb, can access data from the HAN using the CAD-side of an IHD/CAD.

matelodave

Astria said:

QrizB said:

You'll be pleased to learn, then, that this is pretty much what happens. You the customer get to choose whether your meters report half-hourly, daily or monthly.

https://help.bulb.co.uk/hc/en-us/articles/360005136951-Choosing-how-often-your-smart-meter-sends-readings

https://www.ovoenergy.com/help/monthly-bills-statements

(OVO suggest hourly is an option too.)

Some say that whatever you choose, the meter will still "phone home" and will still report your usage every 30 minutes, but it's then only stored every hour, day, week, whatever.

Others say people have proven that the meter does "communicate" regularly throughout the day, but they've not actually proven what data is transferred as it's all encrypted, they just assume it's usage data.

there are also the conspiracy theorist that think that Covid Vaccinations implant trackers and other devices in your body and that 5G masts give you cancer, covid and myriad other ills. That aliens are abducting people and if you wear a tifoil hat then you'll be safe.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't be questioning stuff but please dont believe  everything that you read in the DM or see on TickTock.

I'd guess that the data load of millions of meters "phoning home" every half an hour of every day throughout the country is a pretty implausible statement however you believe what you want and I'll take a more sensible view

lohr500

@Astria. I think the difference is that the RF signal which toggled the old style E7 meters was regional, so could not be customised to suit multiple tariff offerings. To offer a range of tariffs, presumably tariff specific frequencies would need to broadcast and meter receivers retuned to accept the frequency of the selected tariff. That would involve a meter adjustment for every customer who wanted to change tariff AND the installation of new meters anyway for customers who didn't have a radio teleswitch in the 1st place.  Probably more complicated than installing smart meter in the 1st place!!

Astria

I'd guess that the data load of millions of meters "phoning home" every half an hour of every day throughout the country is a pretty implausible statement however you believe what you want and I'll take a more sensible view

Have you ever thought about the amount of phones, cars, tablets, other metering devices, etc, all using particular mobile networks and how much data they gobble up each day? All of sudden, sending a few bytes of data every 30 minutes doesn't seem so daft...

Astria

lohr500 said:

@Astria. I think the difference is that the RF signal which toggled the old style E7 meters was regional, so could not be customised to suit multiple tariff offerings. To offer a range of tariffs, presumably tariff specific frequencies would need to broadcast and meter receivers retuned to accept the frequency of the selected tariff. That would involve a meter adjustment for every customer who wanted to change tariff AND the installation of new meters anyway for customers who didn't have a radio teleswitch in the 1st place.  Probably more complicated than installing smart meter in the 1st place!!

But we wern't discussing multiple tariff offerings, we were offering a single day/night tariff that could be adjusted, and it would only apply to people that actually wanted such a tariff offering. It would be far cheaper than the current mess of £11bn spent so far and no end in sight.

MWT

Astria said:

I'd guess that the data load of millions of meters "phoning home" every half an hour of every day throughout the country is a pretty implausible statement however you believe what you want and I'll take a more sensible view

Have you ever thought about the amount of phones, cars, tablets, other metering devices, etc, all using particular mobile networks and how much data they gobble up each day? All of sudden, sending a few bytes of data every 30 minutes doesn't seem so daft...

... except that isn't how the system works...

The DCC does not store data, it processes requests from authenticated suppliers and 3rd parties, then sends the results of the request to the requester.

It is a conduit, not a data store.

The connection is not initiated from the meter, they do not proactively send, they await a request...

[Deleted User]

Chino said:

Dolor said:

By way of background, the UK grid has a nominal voltage of 230 volts with permissible tolerances of -6% and +10%. As more and more renewable generators are rolled out (wind farms; solar and batteries), the average Grid voltage has been increasing. My average voltage is now 249volts.

Historically the UK has had a nominal voltage of 240V. The only reason it became 230V was to align with Europe. So your claimed average voltage as measured by your uncalibrated smart meter of 249V is nothing out of the ordinary.

SPEN disagrees as it is looking at making an adjustment to my local transformer. Voltage changes by the minute. My highest voltage to date has been 255 volts which has tripped various devices with built in voltage protection. As I post, my supply is 251.5 volts.

BikingBud

agentcain said:

Keep_pedalling said:

agentcain said:

wittynamegoeshere said:

littlemoney said:

wittynamegoeshere said:

Why would anyone would want to buy other equipment, muck about with meters or keep spreadsheets to do the thing that a free thing provided by your supplier does better than anything else?

I'd rather put my time and effort into things that are actually worth caring about.

I don't want another organisation knowing when I am or not at home by tracking my usage. I am yet to be assured of the security of something that sends such data.

Do you have a phone?

A car?

Walk down a street?

Use the internet?

There are far bigger privacy issues to worry about.  I couldn't care less if some mysterious shadowy figure can work out how many cups of tea I've had per day.

It's just internet conspiracy nonsense.  Care about what's worth caring about.

On a practical level, no the smart meter does absolutely nothing for the monetary benefit of the consumer. If anything, their costs are passed onto them. 

Those of us charging or EVs and home battery systems at very cheap off peak rates would have to disagree with you on that point.

How does a "smart" meter help you with that? A simple notification on your phone would work wonders. 

Plus I don't consider the niche market of EVs and home storage to be for the benefit of everyone. Only those who can afford them.  Yet everyone's paying for the meters.

Previous meters were not a gift from Santa, they were paid for by the standing charge.

You might remember at some point in the past they changed from spinny dials to drum counters, and gas meters changed from Ft3 to M3, they are now changing to reflect the latest tech and need to be paid for.

I agree it is possibly misleading to tell the consumer that you do not pay specifically for the installation but that is the same as saying you don't pay for the NHS.

Rules of life:

1. The consumer always pays.
2. Taxes aren't fair.
3. Banks always win.

Gerry1

Previous meters didn't cost well over £400.