Advantage of having smart meters

Radnorsaver

They only work if there is a mobile phone signal! Where I am in mid Wales there is no signal. However, there is a planning application in to build a phone mast JUST FOR THESE METERS! The companies must be making money from them to pay this sort of outlay.

[Deleted User]

wild666 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

wild666 said:

jrawle said:

wittynamegoeshere said:

All meters have a lifespan, they always have had.  The components inside wear over time and they lose accuracy.  I remember getting our old cogs and gears one replaced with one with a digital display back in 2000-odd.  This is just exactly what has always happened.  It just so happens that the latest meters do a bit more than older ones.

As I said in my comment, I would have no objection to a new meter being a smart meter when the time came for it to be replaced anyway. What I object to is meters being replaced before it's necessary, due to waste, and the potential for unnecessary damage to be done to my property.

I also dislike the deceitful letters the big suppliers send out saying my meter is "obsolete" and must be replaced as soon as possible. Clearly twaddle, motivated by targets for smart meter installation set by the government. It's little better than the situation at the start of privatisation when salesmen would call and say you had to switch supplier as the old one had "run out of gas". Lies, plain and simple.

A friend who moved into a new build flat in 1983 is being pressured into having the meter changed for a smart meter. He is like me, a very low user, using around 120 kWh per month on electric and around 1 unit gas in summer and 4 units in winter per month. His meter readings haven't changed in nearly 40 years, his monthly DD for gas in winter is more than his usage. He uses hot water bottles and extra layers of clothing in winter. 
He turns everything off at the socket, even before I started to do so. 

If he is still on the original meter then it sounds like it is due for replacement because of its age. It won’t make any difference to his usage or how much he pays so why object to it being replaced?

He's stubborn, he believes if it ain't broken don't try and fix it and that's what he thinks about changing meters. His meters are outside the flat so the energy company could just send someone to replace them and notify him that they are changing them when they come to change them by knocking at his door and telling him he will lose power whilst they change the meters.

Stubborn or not, if the supplier deems his meters to be end-of-life it can now fit smart meters without his consent. The supplier can also apply to a Court under The Electricity and Gas Acts for a Warrant to enter the property to do so.

Mineral1

Radnorsaver said:

They only work if there is a mobile phone signal! Where I am in mid Wales there is no signal. However, there is a planning application in to build a phone mast JUST FOR THESE METERS! The companies must be making money from them to pay this sort of outlay.

Isn't that a good thing then? I'm sure the SIM cards in smart meters run one the same network as your mobile phone so that would be a huge benefit to the local community that might otherwise not have happened.

Mister_G

Mineral1 said:

Radnorsaver said:

They only work if there is a mobile phone signal! Where I am in mid Wales there is no signal. However, there is a planning application in to build a phone mast JUST FOR THESE METERS! The companies must be making money from them to pay this sort of outlay.

Isn't that a good thing then? I'm sure the SIM cards in smart meters run one the same network as your mobile phone so that would be a huge benefit to the local community that might otherwise not have happened.

The smart meter will connect to the O2 mobile network in South & Central England and Wales.  So as long as they are on O2, they should see an improvement in coverage.

In the North of England and Scotland the smart meters connect to a dedicated UHF radio network run by Arqiva.

wild666

Keep_pedalling said:

uptdale said:

Keep_pedalling said:

wild666 said:

jrawle said:

wittynamegoeshere said:

All meters have a lifespan, they always have had.  The components inside wear over time and they lose accuracy.  I remember getting our old cogs and gears one replaced with one with a digital display back in 2000-odd.  This is just exactly what has always happened.  It just so happens that the latest meters do a bit more than older ones.

As I said in my comment, I would have no objection to a new meter being a smart meter when the time came for it to be replaced anyway. What I object to is meters being replaced before it's necessary, due to waste, and the potential for unnecessary damage to be done to my property.

I also dislike the deceitful letters the big suppliers send out saying my meter is "obsolete" and must be replaced as soon as possible. Clearly twaddle, motivated by targets for smart meter installation set by the government. It's little better than the situation at the start of privatisation when salesmen would call and say you had to switch supplier as the old one had "run out of gas". Lies, plain and simple.

A friend who moved into a new build flat in 1983 is being pressured into having the meter changed for a smart meter. He is like me, a very low user, using around 120 kWh per month on electric and around 1 unit gas in summer and 4 units in winter per month. His meter readings haven't changed in nearly 40 years, his monthly DD for gas in winter is more than his usage. He uses hot water bottles and extra layers of clothing in winter. 
He turns everything off at the socket, even before I started to do so. 

If he is still on the original meter then it sounds like it is due for replacement because of its age. It won’t make any difference to his usage or how much he pays so why object to it being replaced?

Alternatively, if the existing meter works, is easily readable, and meets his needs, why bother with the hassle of having it changed just because his current supplier wants him to?

With such an old meter there is a reasonable chance it is no longer functioning within spec, and that tends to mean running faster rather than slower.

Even since the last contact with him, around a week ago, he says his electric and gas usage haven't increased. The readings are within 5 kWh each month and he has every electric and gas bill from the day he moved in, he won't throw a thing out if it's bill related. 
He once told me that if he used 1600 kWh of electric per year that was a lot and if he used 1500 kWh of gas he would be looking to save on the gas bill. He complains that his standing charge for gas is two much as he only uses around £55 of gas per year at the present rates. 

wild666

[Deleted User] said:

wild666 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

wild666 said:

jrawle said:

wittynamegoeshere said:

All meters have a lifespan, they always have had.  The components inside wear over time and they lose accuracy.  I remember getting our old cogs and gears one replaced with one with a digital display back in 2000-odd.  This is just exactly what has always happened.  It just so happens that the latest meters do a bit more than older ones.

As I said in my comment, I would have no objection to a new meter being a smart meter when the time came for it to be replaced anyway. What I object to is meters being replaced before it's necessary, due to waste, and the potential for unnecessary damage to be done to my property.

I also dislike the deceitful letters the big suppliers send out saying my meter is "obsolete" and must be replaced as soon as possible. Clearly twaddle, motivated by targets for smart meter installation set by the government. It's little better than the situation at the start of privatisation when salesmen would call and say you had to switch supplier as the old one had "run out of gas". Lies, plain and simple.

A friend who moved into a new build flat in 1983 is being pressured into having the meter changed for a smart meter. He is like me, a very low user, using around 120 kWh per month on electric and around 1 unit gas in summer and 4 units in winter per month. His meter readings haven't changed in nearly 40 years, his monthly DD for gas in winter is more than his usage. He uses hot water bottles and extra layers of clothing in winter. 
He turns everything off at the socket, even before I started to do so. 

If he is still on the original meter then it sounds like it is due for replacement because of its age. It won’t make any difference to his usage or how much he pays so why object to it being replaced?

He's stubborn, he believes if it ain't broken don't try and fix it and that's what he thinks about changing meters. His meters are outside the flat so the energy company could just send someone to replace them and notify him that they are changing them when they come to change them by knocking at his door and telling him he will lose power whilst they change the meters.

Stubborn or not, if the supplier deems his meters to be end-of-life it can now fit smart meters without his consent. The supplier can also apply to a Court under The Electricity and Gas Acts for a Warrant to enter the property to do so.

They wouldn't need a court order as both his meters are outside his flat on a wall under the kitchen window.

Keep_pedalling

Swipe said:

Keep_pedalling said:

uptdale said:

Keep_pedalling said:

wild666 said:

jrawle said:

wittynamegoeshere said:

All meters have a lifespan, they always have had.  The components inside wear over time and they lose accuracy.  I remember getting our old cogs and gears one replaced with one with a digital display back in 2000-odd.  This is just exactly what has always happened.  It just so happens that the latest meters do a bit more than older ones.

As I said in my comment, I would have no objection to a new meter being a smart meter when the time came for it to be replaced anyway. What I object to is meters being replaced before it's necessary, due to waste, and the potential for unnecessary damage to be done to my property.

I also dislike the deceitful letters the big suppliers send out saying my meter is "obsolete" and must be replaced as soon as possible. Clearly twaddle, motivated by targets for smart meter installation set by the government. It's little better than the situation at the start of privatisation when salesmen would call and say you had to switch supplier as the old one had "run out of gas". Lies, plain and simple.

A friend who moved into a new build flat in 1983 is being pressured into having the meter changed for a smart meter. He is like me, a very low user, using around 120 kWh per month on electric and around 1 unit gas in summer and 4 units in winter per month. His meter readings haven't changed in nearly 40 years, his monthly DD for gas in winter is more than his usage. He uses hot water bottles and extra layers of clothing in winter. 
He turns everything off at the socket, even before I started to do so. 

If he is still on the original meter then it sounds like it is due for replacement because of its age. It won’t make any difference to his usage or how much he pays so why object to it being replaced?

Alternatively, if the existing meter works, is easily readable, and meets his needs, why bother with the hassle of having it changed just because his current supplier wants him to?

With such an old meter there is a reasonable chance it is no longer functioning within spec, and that tends to mean running faster rather than slower.

I think you'll find in most cases an old mechanical meter will be running slower, rather faster. It certainly was in my case too.

Not according to this report.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/428734/Gas_meter_dispute_report_2014.pdf

wittynamegoeshere

Some people choose to fight some weird battles.  Unless there's something I'm missing, this whole smart meter thing just doesn't seem worth getting excited about.

The only advantage that I know of having an old meter is that they're easier to hot-wire to get free power without getting detected.  If anyone can give any other actual factual reason to object I'd love to hear about it.

1983 was a very long time ago, that meter would be well overdue for replacement.  Someone born when that meter was installed could be a grandparent by now!

Meters use the mobile network but can also mesh network to each other.  So someone in range of the mast could provide the connection for other houses that are out of range, who can then provide the connection for more that are further out of range.  It's all very clever, and works better when more people have them, as it becomes more likely that the meters in out-of-range houses can connect to other meters.  There should be very few houses that are actually out of range once everyone has them.

uptdale

wittynamegoeshere said:

The only advantage that I know of having an old meter is that they're easier to hot-wire to get free power without getting detected.  If anyone can give any other actual factual reason to object I'd love to hear about it.

Well here's one reason, from my experience (posted on 4 December):

"Earlier this year we bought a house with smart meters.  Both gas and electricity were supplied by People's Energy, but their systems did not enable them to read the smart meters remotely (I assume that the meters were installed by a previous supplier).  So I have had to read the smart meters manually, which is much harder to do than read a conventional meter.  Among the many hard-to-read figures shown on the gas meter are both cubic meters and kwh, and it turned out that the previous owner had been reading the gas meter incorrectly and reporting the kwh, not the cubic meters.  Which meant that the gas bills were all wrong."

Maybe with smaller suppliers exiting the market, all suppliers will soon be able to read all smart meters remotely.  Maybe all smart meters will be made easier to read manually.  But at the moment they can be a problem.

It took me about half an hour to read the meters.   The meters have blank screens, so first I had to do a google search to find out how to read them.  I found a Youtube clip that someone had posted, which was very useful.  It turned out that you had to press 9 to bring some readings up.  But each meter then cycled through various figures, some self explanatory, some not.  It cycled past the reading I wanted so fast, that I did not have time to write it down or photograph it, so it took several goes to take a reading.  The digital figures were also unclear - 4 and 9 were quite difficult to tell apart.

It was my first experience of smart meters, and for me they were a waste of time compared with analogue meters.

wittynamegoeshere

I have the same annoyance with mine too, I've recently got one and was amazed at how stupidly difficult it is - mine's currently in dumb mode as it's between suppliers.  Presumably the designers of them thought that the network and suppliers would always work perfectly so nobody would ever need to read them.

But... now I know that I press '9' it's hardly painful to do!  It's definitely easier than reading a load of cogs by torchlight.