UKCPS / Knight Frank Parking Outside of Bay PCN - Abbeywood Shopping Park

zz2022zz

Hi all,

I am still trying to get the ticket cancelled by one of the Retailers (Plan A) however as it's a shared carpark none of them appear particularly interested in supporting but I will continue to pursue this option.

The deadline for paying the £100 ends on 23/12/21 & the UKCPS website now says the opportunity to appeal has passed as below:-

"Unfortunately you are unable to appeal this charge. At the time that the charge was incurred, a Notice to Driver may have been affixed to the vehicle or sent through the post. This offered the driver the ability to appeal within 21 days from its imposition. You also as the registered keeper or the driver of the vehicle had the right to appeal within the 21 day period from the point of issue of the Notice to Keeper. Since we have received no further correspondence from you, payment is required within 14 days. If you consider there to be exceptional circumstances as to why you should be allowed to appeal outside of this period then you should send your reasons to us, in writing, at 1200 Century Way Thorpe Park Business Park, Colton, Leeds LS15 8ZA."

As Plan A hasn't worked even though I know it's a Kangaroo Court I did intend to appeal via IAS (to delay the inevitable letters) however thought I had until 23/12/21 but have just realised I should have done that within 21 days of the initial appeal letter (by 16/12/21) so should I / can I do anything else now or just hold out?

To summarise the history:- This is a Free Carpark, The initial PCN was Notice to Keeper, no ticket on the car, there has been no confirmation of the driver to UKCPS & other than the rejection of the online appeal via the UKCPS website, which advised appealing to IAS, there has been no further communication but the payment website has been updated as above.

Apologies for the additional questions, I just want to ensure I follow the necessary steps & even though I have no intention of paying I want to follow the advice not to ignore this.

Thanks in advance.

Le_Kirk

You should still try to appeal to IAS as it will look better at a hearing if it gets that far.  As far as finding the landowner, have you looked at one of @Umkomaas's posts where he (weekly) puts up suggestions to how to find landowners?  Despite what retailers say, somebody owns the land, all the retailers pay rent to somebody and somebody (lot of somebodies) asked the PPC to monitor and patrol the land.

zz2022zz

Many thanks for the advice & suggestion for identifying the landowner. Appeal to IAS will be summitted today.

zz2022zz

I just tried to appeal via IAS, but unable to as below:-

"The Independent Appeals Service (IAS) is unable to accept your appeal at this time as it has been received out of time. You may contact the operator to start a non-standard appeal."

Entirely my error that time has expired, is it worth contacting the operator to start a non standard appeal to show I've tried?

Umkomaas

is it worth contacting the operator to start a non standard appeal to show I've tried?

Absolutely not, as you will be bound by the decision of the IAS. As they only allow 4% of appeals, you're 96% certain of having to stump up £100 alongside the £15 you will have already shelled out. 

Stop worrying about UKCPS, they are generally litigation benign, we've hardly seen a court case of theirs for around 2 years. 

Le_Kirk said:

As far as finding the landowner, have you looked at one of @Umkomaas's posts where he (weekly) puts up suggestions to how to find landowners?  Despite what retailers say, somebody owns the land, all the retailers pay rent to somebody and somebody (lot of somebodies) asked the PPC to monitor and patrol the land.

SOME IDEAS ON DETERMINING WHO OWNS THE LAND 

1. Google searches

2. If a retail park, check on any signage which lists the on-site outlets

3. Ask retailers on the site if there is a managing agent

4. Ask retailers on the site to whom do they pay rent

5. Contact the local authority and ask who pays the non-domestic/business rate for the car park (some councils have a spreadsheet on their website)

6. Contact the local Valuation Office and ask if they know. They often have a website which might provide the information 

7. Contact The Land Registry and for around £3 they should be able to provide definitive detail

8. If you haven't already done so, give us the name of the car park, we may have seen other cases there. 

Coupon-mad

Nononononono and more NO! 

NEVER EVER EVER use IAS no standard appeal.  People pay £15 to lose and agree to be bound by it.  No.

Sit tight, keep all letters.

Come back in 2022 if you get a solicitors' LBC or claim, because UKCPS are not up to filing their own.  Not the sharpest tools in the box.

zz2022zz

Thankyou both for the reassurance & guidance, I will do nothing further at this stage.

I will use the time (before any letters arrive) to continue to try & identify the landowner & overturn the PCN via them.

Thanks again.

zz2022zz

HNY2all.

Apologies for seeking further advice however as an update there has been further correspondence both from UKCPS (which I initially missed) & a Debt Recovery Company (Debt Recovery Plus).

I've read the Newbies Section Post 4 regarding "Debt Recovery Plus" & as I've missed the opportunity to appeal I believe my only & recommended action is to ignore this (and future) letters & to avoid putting my head above the parapet?

Whilst I often think I should have just paid the initial unjustified PCN as the costs keep increasing & I'm increasingly concerned this will cost me dearly however I guess that the intention of the letters!

I have still been unable to make progress with 'Plan A' (cancellation by a retailer/ land owner) & probably need to accept Plan B is my only viable choice however I am unsure what to do to progress Plan B?

Summary as below:-

1. Initial PCN received 16.11.21
2. PCN Charge:- £60.00 if paid within 14 days, £100 within 28 days
3. Location:- Abbeywood Retail Park (Bristol)
4. Reason for Issue:- Outside Marked Bay 
5. Only correspondence to UKCPS was to challenge use of POFA 2012 & to advise driver would not be identified
6. Letter from UKCPS 25.11.21 advising Online (UKCPS) Appeal was unsuccessful & that PCN had been issued correctly
7. Driver still not identified to UKCPS
8. Latest Correspondence from UKCPS (24.12.21) headed as 'Final Notice Letter'
9. Final Notice stated Registered Keeper is liable for the PCN
   
10. PCN Charge increased to £130 within 14 Days
11. Letter received from Debt Recovery Plus (DRP) - very friendly helpful tone implied 
12. Letter stated £170.00 Owed, 7 days to respond 
13. Option to PAY NOW or set up payment plan (£170.00) or DO NOTHING face potential court action
14. If do nothing will begin legal recovery, higher costs (fee could rise to £235), access to Mortgages, Loans, Credit cards etc .may be affected if unsuccessful at court & fail to pay charges
15. DRP letter states "Driver liable for charge, however in certain circumstances, set out in POFA2012 liability may be transferred to the keeper.
16. DRP provided analysis of case, all DRP requirements for Debt Recovery met except "Can the client evidence that you intend not to pay your debt"
17. DRP letter advised monitoring of speed of response is now active & may count against me if the case has to move to legal action.
18. DRP letter gave reference to a 2015 Supreme Court Ruling & advised me 9/10 of people pay on line.
19. DRP final note advised it is possible I may have missed previous requests for payment but once is payment made the case will be closed with no further action however if I do not pay now DRP will update UKCPS legal team of my intent not to pay & DRP will contact me again to advise steps to move to Legal Action.

Apologies the above is lengthy, is there a quick summary of what, if anything, I should do at this stage which would support my Case should this progress to legal action?

I think I should continue to stand firm, try & get the PCN cancelled (Plan A), if so do I should not formally communicate with UKCPS / DRP?

I'm keen to challenge this if at all possible & am absolutely against paying the increased charge but this depends on likelihood of Court Action, or further financial penalties?

Many thanks in advance for all guidance & support given, even if it's just to reassure me to wait for Formal Court Letter, if ever received.

KeithP

The Abbeywood Shopping Park website suggests...
 

Have you contacted them? What did they say?
If not, you need to do that - telling them that you, your family and friends will find it difficult to shop there now that you have found the there is a £100 surcharge for doing so.

Umkomaas

Anything you get from DRP is just BS attempting to separate you from your money. Just simply come back on this thread if you receive a formal LBC from UKCPS (or their lawyers) - unlikely, or a court claim via the Northampton CCBC - even more unlikely, but eminently winnable if they're daft enough to try.