UKCPS / Knight Frank Parking Outside of Bay PCN - Abbeywood Shopping Park

zz2022zz

Hi all,

Thanks in advance for any assistance, I have read the Newbies Section & have followed links to POFA 2012 & am incredibly grateful for the advice shared within.

Based on my understanding I think I just need to make the payment however would like to ask for advice before I proceed as if I don't pay I don't want to get myself into a Legal Rabbit Hole that could / should be avoided based on the below:-

As registered keeper of a vehicle, I received a "Parking Charge Notice" from UKCPS who claim the driver is liable for a parking charge (Free Carpark) with reason for issue "Out of Marked Bay".

I appealed to UKCPS (online) as registered Keeper advising I denied any liability & would not be naming the driver, confirming as Keeper I accepted no liability as there was a lack of reference to POFA 2012 however having re-read the PCN it does make reference to “Notice to Keeper (MNPR – Manual Number Plate Recognition) Made under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012”

I have now received an Appeal Rejection from UKCPS, I have not appealed further, headlines of the Appeal Rejection as below:-

We have reviewed the case and considered the comments that you have made. This appeal has  been  considered  in  conjunction  with  the  evidence  gathered  and  our  records  show  that  the  PCN was correctly issued as your vehicle was parked in breach of the Terms and Conditions of Parking. Vehicles parking at the above location must be parked correctly within the confines of a marked bay.  Parking out of marked bays can cause obstruction, inconvenience and safety hazards to other users of the car park. By parking the vehicle outside the confines of a marked bay, the driver contractually agrees to pay a parking charge.

We  are  therefore  unable  to  cancel  the  PCN  as  it  was  issued  correctly.  We  have  now  extended  the discounted  payment  period  by  14  days  to  allow  you  time  to  pay  the  discounted  settlement  amount. Please now make payment of  £## to reach us by 09/12/2021 or £### to reach us by 23/12/2021. We must advise you that once the discounted settlement rate passes it will not be offered again.

If you believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS). Please note if you make an appeal to the IAS then the discounted rate is no longer available. If the parking charge remains unpaid, we may seek to recover the monies owed to us via our Debt Recovery procedures and may proceed with County Court action against you. UKCPS Ltd will not enter further correspondence unless through the IAS appeal system details above.

Whilst there was no PCN attached the vehicle it would appear from my limited understanding that UKCPS have complied with POFA 2012 so should I just pay (as Registered Keeper) even though the Driver has not been identified?

Below are some of the images (13 in total) from the PCN as I believe the driver parked incorrectly due to the adjacent vehicles being out of their bays, the leaves on the floor obscuring the lines of the bay & parking in line with the vehicles in rows in front.

Any advice & guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Coupon-mad

Based on my understanding I think I just need to make the payment

Then you need to re-read the NEWBIES thread!  At no point do I say pay.  Did you read the awful MSE article by mistake?

Those lines on that side are faded so much that no car is within a bay line, all the way along.

NO-ONE pays ex-clampers UKCPS.

Anyway, as you've read the NEWBIES thread you will know shat PLAN A is.  Let us know how that goes, and it's not 'appeal'.

D_P_Dance

Based on my understanding I think I just need to make the payment 

Good Lord no, it is a scam.  Many judges regard this oarticular  claim as a wast of court time and throw it out as de minimis, read this and complain to your MP.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_minimis

zz2022zz

Hi both,

Many thanks for your prompt & reassuring replies, apologies for the delay thanking you but as Registered Keeper is there any specific action I need to take now as whilst I won't now be paying but I don't want to get myself into a Legal Rabbit Hole that could / should be avoided?

From my limited understanding it would appear UKCPS have complied with all the requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA, (including Sec 7-9) & as Registered Keeper of the vehicle all I have done is confirm I do not accept liability & will not be disclosing the Driver Details, as suggested I have not appealed further or entered into any further correspondence with UKCPS.

Whilst the below post (30.11.21) was about an independent (Peter Fisher) my concern is the post mentions failing to defend?


Had a quick look and that person seems to have lost because he failed to defend! 

We win 99% of defended cases here.

I emailed Peter Fisher and asked whether we should ignore this and received a simple one word reply: "Yes"

There is no such person. We know who you mean and the defunct company.  Forget it.

The person who replied to you was (of course) right to tell you to ignore DRP.  That's standard advice (see 4th post of the NEWBIES thread) here for free for more than a decade.  Nothing has changed about that advice and it was the same even before clamping was banned in 2012.

 for peace of mind my partner thinks it best to pay.

Why?  We haven't seen a UKCPS court claim in years.

No-one here gets a CCJ.


I am enthused to hear UKCPS court claims are rare but it would be helpful to understand what my defence is against this PCN or is it just that the PCN itself is a Scam?

I will write to my MP as suggested but other than that do I just await the threatening correspondence from UKCPS & treat it with the contempt it deserves & ignore it?

Thanks again in advance.

Coupon-mad

What happened when you tried PLAN A from the NEWBIES thread, which was also my advice above?

D_P_Dance

 for peace of mind my partner thinks it best to pay.

Why this is a scam, are you going to fund organised crime?

zz2022zz

Thanks Coupon-mad,

I'm awaiting a response from the Retailer (Plan A) but wanted to prepare should they be unsupportive as the photo's show the vehicle is actually parked outside of the (poorly) marked bay, it feels like time & evidence is against me even though I am only the Registered Keeper.

I've read the Newbies Section & am aware I have received a PCN by post (no ticket) as Registered Keeper, UKCPS do not know who the Driver is & I've read the post by The_Slithy_Tove which would suggest UKCPS have complied with POFA 2012 should I have to proceed down Plan B.

Ultimately I'm happy to contest where I have a chance of success but am wary of your signature that mentions 'Don't Pay by Don't ignore it' & I'm unclear what I should do now. 

Thanks D_P_Dance,

The reference to 'for peace of mind my partner thinks it best to pay' was a quote from another thread, based on the advice received I don't intend to pay but don't currently feel particularly confident.

Thanks again both.

Coupon-mad

Ultimately I'm happy to contest where I have a chance of success but am wary of your signature that mentions 'Don't Pay by Don't ignore it' & I'm unclear what I should do now. 

1. Appeal it and go through the farce of IAS because lots of PPCs do drop out and maybe their evidence doesn't show the line.

2.  Calm down and get on with life.

3.  No paying it for an easy life.  You are not ignoring it so you are following our advice.  There is no CCJ risk as long as you follow our advice and tell UKCPS if you move house within 6 years.

4.  Watch me and bargepole on this Ch5 show on Thursday (for a few seconds unless we end up on the cutting room floor) and decide if we know what we are talking about:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78806720/#Comment_78806720

Really this is nothing to fret about, no dilemma, the industry is out of control, hence the Government stepping in now.

I think the parking industry will be busy next year with all the new rules and code. 

zz2022zz

Thanks again,

I'll chase the retailer as the evidence does show the line (poorly painted) but visible, as in the images above.

Despite knowing it's a Kangaroo Court I'll enter the farce of the IAS to show I'm not ignoring it.

TV schedule booked for Thursday

D_P_Dance

 I don't intend to pay but don't currently feel particularly confident.

You should.  Judges are not fools, they recognise Mickey Mouse claims from Mickey Mouse companies.  

zz2022zz

Hi all,

Just as an update it would appear it's a shared car park (Retail Park), the retailer that was visited (B&M) have advised they believe ASDA have engaged UKCPS, I will now restart Plan A with ASDA even though I have no evidence of any transactions with them.

If I make no progress I will start an appeal via IAS before the PCN expiry date of 23/12/21.