Property entered without our permission

peter3hg

lookstraightahead said:

Murphybear said:

lookstraightahead said:

Thrugelmir said:

roaduser3189 said:

I have contacted the police and they weren't particularly helpful. 

What were you expecting them to do? 

The same as if any house had been broken into 

If someone entered using a key they have not broken in.  If they had smashed the door in the police may have been a bit more interested. 

So if I leave my car door unlocked it's ok for someone to sit in it, go through the contents of the boot and the glove compartment?

Or if I leave my back door open and someone comes in in the middle of the night while I'm asleep, uses the loo, rearranges the furniture, it's not an offence?

the op hasn't "moved out" until 8 December.

I'm honestly intrigued. It appears that if you rent, it's ok for people to come into your house without your permission.

is it ok for anyone with access to a key to my home to come in at any time, or their mates?

There is a big difference between it not being ok and it being illegal.

What offence is it that you think has been committed?
Trespass is a civil matter so the police won't generally get involved in that.
It isn't burglary as that is trespass with the intent or result of stealing something, assaulting somebody or causing criminal damage.
It also isn't criminal damage as they have entered with a key.

I don't think anybody is saying that it is right that somebody entered their house, just that it isn't a police matter.

elsien

Either way, given that the OP does not know who entered (although they have a suspicion) and nothing broken in entering or  taken, the police have far more effective uses of their time at present. Really not sure what the OP realistically expected them to do? 

lookstraightahead

peter3hg said:

lookstraightahead said:

Murphybear said:

lookstraightahead said:

Thrugelmir said:

roaduser3189 said:

I have contacted the police and they weren't particularly helpful. 

What were you expecting them to do? 

The same as if any house had been broken into 

If someone entered using a key they have not broken in.  If they had smashed the door in the police may have been a bit more interested. 

So if I leave my car door unlocked it's ok for someone to sit in it, go through the contents of the boot and the glove compartment?

Or if I leave my back door open and someone comes in in the middle of the night while I'm asleep, uses the loo, rearranges the furniture, it's not an offence?

the op hasn't "moved out" until 8 December.

I'm honestly intrigued. It appears that if you rent, it's ok for people to come into your house without your permission.

is it ok for anyone with access to a key to my home to come in at any time, or their mates?

There is a big difference between it not being ok and it being illegal.

What offence is it that you think has been committed?
Trespass is a civil matter so the police won't generally get involved in that.
It isn't burglary as that is trespass with the intent or result of stealing something, assaulting somebody or causing criminal damage.
It also isn't criminal damage as they have entered with a key.

I don't think anybody is saying that it is right that somebody entered their house, just that it isn't a police matter.

Ok (and I'm genuinely really surprised it isn't illegal). What if It was an elderly person, let's say my mum who is in her eighties. She gets up in the middle of the night to find someone in her kitchen, sitting at the kitchen table with a brew. Then they leave. Should she call the police?

A family friend had a party once and days later someone came into the house, rifled through the drawers etc, but they couldn't find anything missing. The police were definitely involved then as I remember it. 

It's not like the op has moved out officially.

user1977

lookstraightahead said:

peter3hg said:

lookstraightahead said:

Murphybear said:

lookstraightahead said:

Thrugelmir said:

roaduser3189 said:

I have contacted the police and they weren't particularly helpful. 

What were you expecting them to do? 

The same as if any house had been broken into 

If someone entered using a key they have not broken in.  If they had smashed the door in the police may have been a bit more interested. 

So if I leave my car door unlocked it's ok for someone to sit in it, go through the contents of the boot and the glove compartment?

Or if I leave my back door open and someone comes in in the middle of the night while I'm asleep, uses the loo, rearranges the furniture, it's not an offence?

the op hasn't "moved out" until 8 December.

I'm honestly intrigued. It appears that if you rent, it's ok for people to come into your house without your permission.

is it ok for anyone with access to a key to my home to come in at any time, or their mates?

There is a big difference between it not being ok and it being illegal.

What offence is it that you think has been committed?
Trespass is a civil matter so the police won't generally get involved in that.
It isn't burglary as that is trespass with the intent or result of stealing something, assaulting somebody or causing criminal damage.
It also isn't criminal damage as they have entered with a key.

I don't think anybody is saying that it is right that somebody entered their house, just that it isn't a police matter.

Ok (and I'm genuinely really surprised it isn't illegal). What if It was an elderly person, let's say my mum who is in her eighties. She gets up in the middle of the night to find someone in her kitchen, sitting at the kitchen table with a brew. Then they leave. Should she call the police?

A family friend had a party once and days later someone came into the house, rifled through the drawers etc, but they couldn't find anything missing. The police were definitely involved then as I remember it. 

If somebody is on the premises with intent to commit some specific crime (e.g. they're looking for stuff to steal), of course that's a police matter. If a landlord lets themselves in to do something landlordy on the premises, that at most might be trespassing - which isn't in itself an offence. Not leaving after the tenant has told them to get lost might be. Or as above it could constitute harassment, if the tenant keeps on coming home to find the landlord sitting at the kitchen table asking when the rent's going to be paid.

lookstraightahead

user1977 said:

lookstraightahead said:

peter3hg said:

lookstraightahead said:

Murphybear said:

lookstraightahead said:

Thrugelmir said:

roaduser3189 said:

I have contacted the police and they weren't particularly helpful. 

What were you expecting them to do? 

The same as if any house had been broken into 

If someone entered using a key they have not broken in.  If they had smashed the door in the police may have been a bit more interested. 

So if I leave my car door unlocked it's ok for someone to sit in it, go through the contents of the boot and the glove compartment?

Or if I leave my back door open and someone comes in in the middle of the night while I'm asleep, uses the loo, rearranges the furniture, it's not an offence?

the op hasn't "moved out" until 8 December.

I'm honestly intrigued. It appears that if you rent, it's ok for people to come into your house without your permission.

is it ok for anyone with access to a key to my home to come in at any time, or their mates?

There is a big difference between it not being ok and it being illegal.

What offence is it that you think has been committed?
Trespass is a civil matter so the police won't generally get involved in that.
It isn't burglary as that is trespass with the intent or result of stealing something, assaulting somebody or causing criminal damage.
It also isn't criminal damage as they have entered with a key.

I don't think anybody is saying that it is right that somebody entered their house, just that it isn't a police matter.

Ok (and I'm genuinely really surprised it isn't illegal). What if It was an elderly person, let's say my mum who is in her eighties. She gets up in the middle of the night to find someone in her kitchen, sitting at the kitchen table with a brew. Then they leave. Should she call the police?

A family friend had a party once and days later someone came into the house, rifled through the drawers etc, but they couldn't find anything missing. The police were definitely involved then as I remember it. 

If somebody is on the premises with intent to commit some specific crime (e.g. they're looking for stuff to steal), of course that's a police matter. If a landlord lets themselves in to do something landlordy on the premises, that at most might be trespassing - which isn't in itself an offence. Not leaving after the tenant has told them to get lost might be. Or as above it could constitute harassment, if the tenant keeps on coming home to find the landlord sitting at the kitchen table asking when the rent's going to be paid.

Interesting stuff.

I suppose some of it is how much you feel threatened by the behaviour. I would hate to think that the police wouldn't come out if I heard someone downstairs - I take it they can't be arrested for just being there.

user1977

lookstraightahead said:

user1977 said:

lookstraightahead said:

peter3hg said:

lookstraightahead said:

Murphybear said:

lookstraightahead said:

Thrugelmir said:

roaduser3189 said:

I have contacted the police and they weren't particularly helpful. 

What were you expecting them to do? 

The same as if any house had been broken into 

If someone entered using a key they have not broken in.  If they had smashed the door in the police may have been a bit more interested. 

So if I leave my car door unlocked it's ok for someone to sit in it, go through the contents of the boot and the glove compartment?

Or if I leave my back door open and someone comes in in the middle of the night while I'm asleep, uses the loo, rearranges the furniture, it's not an offence?

the op hasn't "moved out" until 8 December.

I'm honestly intrigued. It appears that if you rent, it's ok for people to come into your house without your permission.

is it ok for anyone with access to a key to my home to come in at any time, or their mates?

There is a big difference between it not being ok and it being illegal.

What offence is it that you think has been committed?
Trespass is a civil matter so the police won't generally get involved in that.
It isn't burglary as that is trespass with the intent or result of stealing something, assaulting somebody or causing criminal damage.
It also isn't criminal damage as they have entered with a key.

I don't think anybody is saying that it is right that somebody entered their house, just that it isn't a police matter.

Ok (and I'm genuinely really surprised it isn't illegal). What if It was an elderly person, let's say my mum who is in her eighties. She gets up in the middle of the night to find someone in her kitchen, sitting at the kitchen table with a brew. Then they leave. Should she call the police?

A family friend had a party once and days later someone came into the house, rifled through the drawers etc, but they couldn't find anything missing. The police were definitely involved then as I remember it. 

If somebody is on the premises with intent to commit some specific crime (e.g. they're looking for stuff to steal), of course that's a police matter. If a landlord lets themselves in to do something landlordy on the premises, that at most might be trespassing - which isn't in itself an offence. Not leaving after the tenant has told them to get lost might be. Or as above it could constitute harassment, if the tenant keeps on coming home to find the landlord sitting at the kitchen table asking when the rent's going to be paid.

So it's not a crime for my mum to find some random person sat at her table, maybe if they've come in through an open window.

Her landlord wouldn't be a "random person" though. And I think we have had stories of the confused or drunk letting themselves in to the wrong house and found snoozing on the sofa - I can't see they've committed any offence.

it's not a landlordy thing. It was estate agents/landlord who didn't have permission to be in someone else's home.

Given the context, what do you think the purpose of their visit was, if not some sort of preparation for remarketing the property?

I have to say that this situation has surprised me - I would have thought it was a criminal offence.

Which criminal offence did you think it might be?

canaldumidi

It's a breach of tenancy law, but that is not the same as criminal law. The remedy would be an application to a court for compensation (if there was a financial loss) and/or a court order preventing a repeat (and then any repeat would be contempt of court, which IS criminal),

There's no burgalry, theft, assault, breaking and entering, criminaldamage, or other crimal law broken.

Trespass is not a criminal matter.

Hence, while no one here is arguing that it is right, that is wy the police will not be interested (and rightly so).

martindow

When the OP asks for their deposit back, I imagine the LL's actions could be to their advantage.  If there is a claim that there is damage or a lack of cleanliness, the OP could say it was all perfect until the LL let themselves in ...

lookstraightahead

martindow said:

When the OP asks for their deposit back, I imagine the LL's actions could be to their advantage.  If there is a claim that there is damage or a lack of cleanliness, the OP could say it was all perfect until the LL let themselves in ...

Absolutely. 

lookstraightahead

canaldumidi said:

It's a breach of tenancy law, but that is not the same as criminal law. The remedy would be an application to a court for compensation (if there was a financial loss) and/or a court order preventing a repeat (and then any repeat would be contempt of court, which IS criminal),

There's no burgalry, theft, assault, breaking and entering, criminaldamage, or other crimal law broken.

Trespass is not a criminal matter.

Hence, while no one here is arguing that it is right, that is wy the police will not be interested (and rightly so).

Yes I stand corrected. 

It just doesn't make sense that anyone can walk into anyone else's house and so long as they don't actually break or damage or attack anyone, it's ok.

Also feeling threatened is very subjective.  If someone had just had a nosey through my house and left again, and I was aware of if, I would feel threatened.

I would think the police ignoring it would be a bit risky.