Septic tank non compliant

charlotteo1988

Hello, 

we had a buyers septic tank survey done on our purchase last week. It’s come back that the septic tank isn’t compliant. 

They are quoting £22,000 approx to put in a sewage treatment plant. Do I go back to the seller and say will you reduce the price of the property if we then upgrade the septic tank once we’ve moved in? 

Or do we walk away and try and find another property? 

ProDave

In what way was it not compliant?  I assume discharging to a watercourse?

Yes re negotiate the price. If they don't drop the price to allow the sale to proceed then they will face the same issue with the next buyer and the next.

£22K sounds a lot.  Our treatment plant itself cost £3000 and it was a weekends work to install it, but every situation is unique.

Doozergirl

£22k does sound a lot, even allowing for some complications.  I've paid about £7k inc labour for a decent sized house. 

charlotteo1988

It’s to decommission the old tank remove and replace. 

Do you think we should get other quotes? 

“It is non-compliant with Natural Resources Wales and Building Control, due to being less than 7 metres away from the property and discharging less than 15 metres away from the property. As the system is non- compliant, this does point to replacement.”

charlotteo1988

I’m slightly confused with the report it says 

system in place was a single-chamber septic tank which discharges to an assumed drainage field in the garden. Upon arrival, the system needed emptying to enable us to assess the system fully.

The sewage system is located in the garden and the drainage field appeared to drain into the bottom of the garden.

Upon arrival, the system was full at normal levels. The septic tank was full on inspection and foul waste was discharging into the assumed drainage field as expected.

Overall, the system appeared to be working well and showing no signs of failure. However, due to the latest Regulations, it is non-compliant with Natural Resources Wales and Building Control, due to being less than 7 metres away from the property and discharging less than 15 metres away from the property. As the system is non- compliant, this does point to replacement.

So what exactly is wrong with the septic tank apart it not being far away from the house which we could ask building control if it can be kept there?

ProDave

Unless you are really really short of space, it is usual to leave the old tank, fill it in and cover it over, and install the new one next to it.

So unless you are really short on space, removing the old one is an unnecessary expense.

EDIT  reading the above post, I would say nothing wrong with it. the "working well and showing no sign of failure" would be good enough for me.

Remember building regulations are not retrospective.  It would not comply with current building regulations so don't go down that route.  It probably complied with building regs when it was installed.  and Scottish building regs says it only needs to be 5 metres from the house so Welsh regs seem a bit strict.

The big no no under the new rules is a septic tank discharging to a watercourse.  This one discharges to land so that is not an issue.

So I suspect it is backside covering by the surveyor.

so if you could get some off the price just in case someone forces you to do something in the future, and just carry on as normal with the existing system.

charlotteo1988

ProDave said:

Unless you are really really short of space, it is usual to leave the old tank, fill it in and cover it over, and install the new one next to it.

So unless you are really short on space, removing the old one is an unnecessary expense.

EDIT  reading the above post, I would say nothing wrong with it. the "working well and showing no sign of failure" would be good enough for me.

Remember building regulations are not retrospective.  It would not comply with current building regulations so don't go down that route.  It probably complied with building regs when it was installed.  and Scottish building regs says it only needs to be 5 metres from the house so Welsh regs seem a bit strict.

The big no no under the new rules is a septic tank discharging to a watercourse.  This one discharges to land so that is not an issue.

So I suspect it is backside covering by the surveyor.

so if you could get some off the price just in case someone forces you to do something in the future, and just carry on as normal with the existing system.

That is What has confused me. They have put a recommendation for a treatment plant but doesn’t say it is essential to make it compliant. 

Only reason it’s not compliant is the distance but I’m presuming the distance was fine when it was first installed. 

My partner installs lpg tanks and if regulations change tanks don’t have to be moved to comply with distance changes unless they need to be upgraded then it will need to be compliant I believe. 

So my thought would be as long as the septic tank is in working order and it has a drainage system that isn’t going into a watercourse the distance shouldn’t be a problem. And only will be a problem when the tank needs to be replaced when cracked or not working properly. 

I’ve emailed my solicitor to ask her what her thoughts on it are. 

mark_cycling00

It's a confusing area. (been through it myself).

There are 3 main scenarios for septic tanks (from my experience)

1. It's broken - cracked by tree root or something, or owner keeps putting things down it that they shouldn't and has to keep having it emptied... it smells yuck yuck. In this scenario you've discovered something bad (that wasn't disclosed by the owner) and you'll need to pay to fix it. So good idea to drop your price.

2. It works fine but "pollutes" i.e. too close to a stream and you'll effectively be a polluter and subject to environmental officers. I saw a property in this situation, the estate agent was very forthright about the situation and we discussed costs of replacing with a water treatment system (£10k) the seller will know and will either drop or have incorporated this into the asking price.

3, It works fine but is now "non-compliant" to the latest January 2020 regs. So now you're in a grey area. I get the feeling that most septic tanks are non-compliant but no-one is posting on this forum that some official has visited them and forced them to move it a few meters for £22,000 (in your case). The seller hasn't been dishonest and you could move in and happily live with it (although you may be worried or anxious about being "non-compliant"

I guess everyone with a septic tank (including me) lives with the small risk that one day we'll all be forced to move to water treatment plants (£10k) but arguably that is factored into the selling price. Many buyers won't consider a house with a septic tank, if this property was on drainage maybe the asking price would be higher.

In case this is your first "off-grid" drainage property, I'd say that my entire village has septic tanks, I never smell anything nasty, see leaks or people having them emptied. You have to use eco stuff in your shower/washer/dishwasher (which is good quality these days) and magically it gets broken down into clean water. There's no electricity pumping it to a sewage farm, and no chemicals used to treat it. We have our veg plot on top of ours, and there's an award-winning natural spring at the bottom of the valley where people fill up drinking water containers  

You also don't pay for waste water on your water bill. (maybe confirm with your supplier)

It's good you had it checked. Hope my perspective helps

canaldumidi

* It was probably compliant when installed. It no longer meets current standards.

* it discharges (apparantly sucessfully) to a drainage field, not a watercourse which would be a big NoNo nowadays.

* I'd certainly want to know that the existing drainage field is adequate for the property size and is functioning properly eg not waterlogged - does the report make no mention?

* " assumed drainage field" and "the drainage field appeared to drain into the bottom of the garden." suggests a) no inspection of the drainage field, and b) the drainage field does not seem to be coping with the septic tank outflow since  there is subsequent drainage out of the DF into the bottom of the garden. Go back to your specialist surveyor and get further details (which they should have provided).

* " a single-chamber septic tank". This is unusual, and primative. Most septic tanks are dual chamber to ensure what flows out to the drainage field is only liquids, no solids. Personally I'd want to upgrade,

* £22K is very expensive. A treatment plant costs between £1500-£3500 depending on make/size. Plus labour. But a big cost is pipework, and especially re-digging a new drainage field if needed. Filling in the old tank with the spoil dug out for the new treatment plant is peanuts.

* is there a stream, drain, ditch, pond or similar for the outflow from a new treatment plant? TPs produce near drinking water purity and can discharge anywhere - no drainage field needed.

* for comparison, my neighbour and I paid around £11K for a new, top of range, 12 person TP, with long pipework down his garden and outflow pipe connecting to nearby road drain. And filling in the old septic tank plus making good his garden.

So to conclude, you could

a) do nothing. Continue using the current system which 'is working'.

b) decide to upgrade to a treatment plant, which is definately a better system, but research the different types, and get several quotes (we got 6 quotes for 3 different systems)

c) try negotiating on purchase price which might influence your decision

charlotteo1988

canaldumidi said:

* It was probably compliant when installed. It no longer meets current standards.

* it discharges (apparantly sucessfully) to a drainage field, not a watercourse which would be a big NoNo nowadays.

* I'd certainly want to know that the existing drainage field is adequate for the property size and is functioning properly eg not waterlogged - does the report make no mention?

* " assumed drainage field" and "the drainage field appeared to drain into the bottom of the garden." suggests a) no inspection of the drainage field, and b) the drainage field does not seem to be coping with the septic tank outflow since  there is subsequent drainage out of the DF into the bottom of the garden. Go back to your specialist surveyor and get further details (which they should have provided).

* " a single-chamber septic tank". This is unusual, and primative. Most septic tanks are dual chamber to ensure what flows out to the drainage field is only liquids, no solids. Personally I'd want to upgrade,

* £22K is very expensive. A treatment plant costs between £1500-£3500 depending on make/size. Plus labour. But a big cost is pipework, and especially re-digging a new drainage field if needed. Filling in the old tank with the spoil dug out for the new treatment plant is peanuts.

* is there a stream, drain, ditch, pond or similar for the outflow from a new treatment plant? TPs produce near drinking water purity and can discharge anywhere - no drainage field needed.

* for comparison, my neighbour and I paid around £11K for a new, top of range, 12 person TP, with long pipework down his garden and outflow pipe connecting to nearby road drain. And filling in the old septic tank plus making good his garden.

So to conclude, you could

a) do nothing. Continue using the current system which 'is working'.

b) decide to upgrade to a treatment plant, which is definately a better system, but research the different types, and get several quotes (we got 6 quotes for 3 different systems)

c) try negotiating on purchase price which might influence your decision

So they have mentioned the existing drainage it states “Whilst we were emptying the septic tank, we could not see any evidence of any effluent running back into the septic tank from the drainage field suggesting that it was functioning efficiently. No wet or marshy ground were located, which is normally a common sign of drainage field failure.”

so I don’t get why they are saying we need to get a new one. 

Just to put some context on the property. It is a two bedroom bungalow set in 0.86acres 
 
it’s got 3 other houses next to it one either side and one over the track and then the farmer is also building a house on one of the fields behind our property. 

At the beginning of the track there is 3 more properties. 

I’m going to speak to my solicitor and say at some point it obviously will need upgrading and if we can get a little off the price that would be better for us. 

But like everyone has said it isn’t going to cost 22k I think they have over priced that quote and aswell we need to buy ourselves a digger for the garden anyways so we could dig a new trench out when we do upgrade in the years to come. 

charlotteo1988

The inspection!!!! 

At the time of my visit, the property was occupied and the sewage system in use. The system in place was a single-chamber septic tank which discharges to an assumed drainage field in the garden. Upon arrival, the system needed emptying to enable us to assess the system fully.

The sewage system is located in the garden and the drainage field appeared to drain into the bottom of the garden.

Upon arrival, the system was full at normal levels. The septic tank was full on inspection and foul waste was discharging into the assumed drainage field as expected.

The inlet and outlet dip pipes were attached. The importance of dip pipes are as follows:

Inlet: is to deposit raw and fresh sewage beneath the crust to help reduce smell. Outlet: is to help separate solids from liquids and prevent solids entering the drainage field potentially causing it to block and fail.

 Whilst we were emptying the septic tank, we could not see any evidence of any effluent running back into the septic tank from the drainage field suggesting that it was functioning efficiently. No wet or marshy ground were located, which is normally a common sign of drainage field failure.

Once the system had been emptied, we could see that the septic tank appeared structurally sound showing no signs of any cracks, bulges or damage. There were no signs of root ingress/ground water ingress which can potentially allow storm/ground water into the system causing it to become overwhelmed and allow sewage effluent out of the system potentially causing pollution to the ground around the system.

We carried out a storm water dye test on all accessible storm drains to ascertain whether storm drainage was connected to the foul. This test proved that storm water is, in fact, separate to the foul system. Storm water should be separate to the foul system as excessive amounts of water can affect the normal functioning of bacteria in the septic tank and cause the system to become overwhelmed. Excessive amounts of water can also flush solids out into the drainage field potentially causing it to block and fail.

Overall, the system appeared to be working well and showing no signs of failure. However, due to the latest Regulations, it is non-compliant with Natural Resources Wales and Building Control, due to being less than 7 metres away from the property and discharging less than 15 metres away from the property. As the system is non- compliant, this does point to replacement.