Car Hit shunted in rear - no one accepts Liability

Quarkrad

I was recently involved in a 6 car pile up on the M25 - I was at the front and was shunted in the rear as everything hit each other (I did not hit the car in front of me).  There was a slight injury in one of the other cars and a police incident was recorded at the scene.  As the front car, with damage to my rear, I assumed I would be OK insurance cost wise, but I'm being told that no one has accepted liability and I have to pay my £350 access for rear damage repair.  The cynic in me say it costs money for the insurance companies to challenge each other and fight for their customers so they just all accept no one has liability and get their customers to pay their access.  Do I have to accept this no liability situation or have I other avenues to explorer?

eddddy

I guess the problem is that it's very difficult for the insurance company (or you) to prove who was at fault - because it depends on the precise order of 5 different shunts. And everyone is giving a different story.

• If you had stopped - and the driver #2 behind you shunted you, it would clearly be their fault.

• But I guess that driver #2  is saying he had stopped (or could have stopped), but driver #3 shunted him into the back of you. Which makes the damage to your car driver #3's fault.

• But driver #3 is blaming driver #4 for shunting him into the cars in front - which makes the damage to your card driver #4's fault.

• But driver #4 is saying that cars 1 to 3 had already crashed, before he 'joined the crash' - so the damage to your car isn't his fault

etc etc


Unless there is a (credible) witness who can clearly explain the order of the impacts, or you can get cctv from the highways authority - it's difficult to see how you can find out who really was at fault.

Quarkrad

I fully accept that but as I am the car in front how do I have part of the liability?  I can see the other five arguing amongst themselves but would have thought my insurer not take the stance of '... I don't care who takes responsibility or if you decide to share it but there is no way it is me either wholly or part so you lot decide how you are going to pay me...'.  I'm beginning to think I'm being naive over this and although I think '..if you get shunted in the rear and it is not your fault...' it is not necessarily the case unless there are independent witnesses (which in many times I guess there is not). 

lisyloo

This clearly is not your fault.
you are correct I think that insurers weigh up the costs of pursuing a claim and don’t always do what is fair. I would say that is realistic rather than cynical especially where there isn’t proof.

you can certainly demand a clear explanation from your insurer.
if you aren’t getting the clarity you want then you could put things on a formal footing a make a formal complaint, however this might only mean clarity rather than getting the answer you want.

it is unfair.

if it was me I’d be asking for clarity on the situation and if that clarity isn’t forthcoming you have the complaints procedure to follow, but as I say that might only achieve clarity and not what you want/deserve.

pramsay13

Being the front car usually means you are not at fault but not always. 

I was the back car in the three car shunt. I didn't accept liability as the 2nd car hit the first and then swerved or was shunted half into my lane. 

For me it was non fault but not sure what the other split was as 1st car had stopped on a motorway to let someone on from slip road!

user1977

The general principle is that it's your cost unless you can pin the blame on somebody else. And it doesn't sound like you realistically can identify who's at fault. 

Aretnap

Your excess is not a punishment for being at fault, it's simply the part of your claim that isn't covered by your own policy. Your fault, someone else's fault, nobody's fault in particular, it makes no difference - your excess is payable regardless. 

What you can do is claim it back from the person who was at fault, or their insurance company. That however requires you to be able to prove that a particular person was at fault. It's not enough to say "I wasn't to blame", you have to be able to say "Person X was to blame, so person X needs to pay". That is likely to be complicated in a multi-car accident. Not impossible, but certainly complicated enough that your insurance company are not going to just waive your excess and reclaim it themselves, as they might in a simple accident with clear liability.

I'm not sure there's much you can realistically do beyond pay, and hope that liability gets sorted out eventually. If it does your can reclaim the excess from whoever is ultimately found to be to blame, but that could be a slow process. 

Quarkrad

Thank you for your comments.  A slight twist on this - and I'm especially interested in the last post '..I'm not sure there's much you can realistically do beyond pay...'.   My car only suffered cosmetic damaged and it has been looked at by the authorised repair garage. They took photos of the back bumper - it is slightly twisted but nothing that I'm worried about.  As the damaged to my car is hardy worth worrying about and the repair garage has seen it I'm of the view not to get it repair or pay my £350.  Having reported the accident - am I obliged to follow this through and get the repair/pay the £350?  Surely they cannot charge me £350 if I have nothing done?

Sandtree

The issue is that the more vehicles there are involved the messier it gets; if you take the classic 3 car shunt then front car is innocent and its a debate between the middle and back car if you were hit by 2 first and then 2 was hit by 3 or if 2 stopped and 3 hit 2 pushing them into you.

The classic way to resolve this was to ask the lead car how many bumps they felt - 1 suggests its a true shunt, 2 suggests it was a rear end first followed by a shunt.  Then you get the debate if it was a two step collision if the 2nd hit caused additional damage to the lead car (ie was it a gentle tap followed by a heavy hit or visa versa)

You are not obliged to claim for your own damages and if you dont claim for them there is no excess to pay. Be aware however that if you are not pursuing the claim your insurers will lose interest and you're unlikely to ever get an outcome on liability... ie you cant sit back and wait to see how it plays out.

In theory you can ask the car immediately behind you to deal with your losses on a without prejudice basis as clearly you are an innocent party and they can then redistribute your losses along with their clients as/when liability is resolved. They are under no obligations to do so and probability of them agreeing to it depends very much on the direction liability is going in.

Its unlikely that these types of accident end up without a resolution on liability, however it can be a compromise agreement where insurers agree to share liability despite the respective policyholders finger pointing at each other.

elsien

Quarkrad said:

Thank you for your comments.  A slight twist on this - and I'm especially interested in the last post '..I'm not sure there's much you can realistically do beyond pay...'.   My car only suffered cosmetic damaged and it has been looked at by the authorised repair garage. They took photos of the back bumper - it is slightly twisted but nothing that I'm worried about.  As the damaged to my car is hardy worth worrying about and the repair garage has seen it I'm of the view not to get it repair or pay my £350.  Having reported the accident - am I obliged to follow this through and get the repair/pay the £350?  Surely they cannot charge me £350 if I have nothing done?

You can tell them you are notifying for information only and not looking to make a claim. 

lisyloo

Quarkrad said:

Thank you for your comments.  A slight twist on this - and I'm especially interested in the last post '..I'm not sure there's much you can realistically do beyond pay...'.   My car only suffered cosmetic damaged and it has been looked at by the authorised repair garage. They took photos of the back bumper - it is slightly twisted but nothing that I'm worried about.  As the damaged to my car is hardy worth worrying about and the repair garage has seen it I'm of the view not to get it repair or pay my £350.  Having reported the accident - am I obliged to follow this through and get the repair/pay the £350?  Surely they cannot charge me £350 if I have nothing done?

No you do not have to make a claim.
however you will now have to declare this “loss”/accident in future (it’s NOT a claim).
please don’t even think about forgetting about it - it may cause you a real nightmare as it’s called non-disclosure. It can happen inadvertently - for example people not knowing hereditary medical history, but it can cause significant problems.

as above you do not need need to declare a claim, but you would need to declare an accident/loss.

hopefully you won’t be penalised for a single loss.