Ticket when doing a delivery

[Deleted User]

Hi all

Last week I went into a block of flats. It's near a school so I think that's the reason why they are so hot on parking. Anyway, I parked in a bay (not alloted to specific flats and double yellows everywhere else) and went up to read the sign. There was a somewhat shifty looking person just hanging around, like a warden in disguise, so I asked him if it was okay to park there to make a delivery. He said "go ahead" so I crossed the road, rang the door bell and delivered the item. Probably wasn't even 2 minutes. 

When I came back, he wasn't there and some other guy was telling me the same person was taking pictures of both our cars - so it turns out I'm right on him being undercover or just a annoying resident taking pictures and sharing it with the parking management.

Just wanted to know where I stand with an appeal? Is there a certain time limit that needs to pass? Etc.

Update - I made my appeal, online, end of November and have the email archived to prove it. I got a letter though the post today saying the ticket has not been paid and is now £100. There is no reference to the appeal.

I can appeal again, but should I use a similar template or just make a note that I haven't heard back from the previous appeal? 

UPDATE

Sorry to bump this. So, I appealed and didn't hear anything back yet again. Months go by and I hear nothing. Forgot about it.

Today, I get a debt collection letter through the post. What the heck? I've saved my emails etc. of me chasing but it's got to the point it's more trouble than it's worth. 

It's a £170 fine

UPDATE 3

So, I've got a "letter before claim" from Gladstone. Read the newbie thread and it seems to be telling me to ask for a data request for the parking form and let these guise know I'm taking debt advice. Is this definitely going to court then? 

nicestrawb

Where was this???

Fruitcake

Assuming this happened on private not public or council land, what is the name of the parking company (it will have been on the signs), and was a NTD left on the windscreen?

I suggest you revisit on foot and take photos of the site and signage in case The Keeper gets a love letter from a PPC in the post.

If that happens, then follow the advice in the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES beginning with a complaint to the landowner and then an appeal using the template in blue text if a cancellation is not forthcoming.

Send the appeal template unaltered from The Keeper, ensuring the driver's identity is not revealed.

Note that stopping and delivering is not parking as determined in the Jopson vs Homeguard case heard in the appeal court.

Coupon-mad

Sounds like he will upload photos to whichever PPC has signs there.  This is covert surveillance and predatory ticketing, everything that the POFA and the Knight Act are meant to have stamped out. Cowboy territory.  Clamping without a clamp. 

I hope your V5C has the right address on it?  Expect a private PCN to appeal, what fun.  NOT.

 parked in a bay (not alloted to specific flats and double yellows everywhere else) 

You can deliver (load/unload) on double yellows and you should do. 

That's what they are there to be used for, on street (not necessarily on private land).

Drivers who deliver for a living ALL need to know that double yellows are what you should seek out, and NEVER a bay or private car park.  They are there for exempt activity like your job!

As long as you don't obstruct a footway crossing or park too near a junction, they are your exempt and allowed parking place.  Aim for double yellows every time as long as there are no kerb blips at right angles (a loading ban).

95Rollers

Coupon-mad said:

Sounds like he will upload photos to whichever PPC has signs there.  This is covert surveillance and predatory ticketing, everything that the POFA and the Knight Act are meant to have stamped out. Cowboy territory.  Clamping without a clamp. 

He is doing covert investigation and enforcement work in a predatory (and entrapping) manner to ultimately make money for the company (and possibly himself if there is a cut to be had).   Find out (from the PPC as you probably won't see him again) if is RIPA trained or has the relevant lawful authorisation by them to do this...(he won't because RIPA applies to law enforcement/ local authority/ official bodies etc). 

RIPA is The Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000, governs the use of covert surveillance by public bodies.  RIPA does not legally apply to private companies (which PPCs are - but seem to forget in the aggressive and intrusive ways they behave) - but offers a good framework to work within for private companies - so where is the PPC's policy?  Are they following the RIPA practises for their directed surveilance which they are then using to get your personal details from the DVLA. Is their a policy written by this PPC for ‘Directed’ surveillance?  Where do their actions fit in with the Data Protection Act, Anti-Social Behavior or Harassment? 

Basically this is surveillance that is conducted as part of a specific investigation (in this case for the purpose of scoring PCNs in the name of parking management on private land to enforce the rules by punishing the motorists!)  and carried out ‘in such a manner as is likely to result in the obtaining of private information about a person’ - i.e watching you, taking pictures and then getting your details from the DVLA so they can hound you for money and share it with companies you don't want it being shared with.

As a general rule, RIPA governs active surveillance – actions interfering with individual privacy that would normally be illegal if carried out by a private individual, eg installing a listening device in someone’s house, but can be lawful because carried out for a legitimate governmental purpose, eg detecting crime. It does not extend to other privacy technologies such as databases or CCTV (except, for example, where the CCTV camera was installed in such a way as to monitor a private home).  I'm not sure where parking on private land comes into the equasion here - because it doesn't!  

I would certainly challenge the PCN, PPC and BPA regarding these underhand practises!

Also he has done nothing to mitigate the problem - can he not shout "Can't Park There Mate"?!?

I would write to your MP informing them of this entrapment zone, predatory behaviour and surveillance which is completely against RIPA framework and data protection or even other laws. Its a case of PPCs thinking they are above the law and their own ATAs rulings. Very poor behaviour which needs stamping out a.s.a.p!

D_P_Dance

Delivery is not parking, read this and complain to your MP..

https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/JOPSON-V-HOMEGUARD-2906J-Approved.pdf

Coupon-mad

Delivery is not parking.

Can be, though, if you walk off site.  

You or I would never drive into a private car park to deliver something!  Double yellows are there for that purpose. Frustrates me that people are wrongly taught that double yellows are like double reds.  Wrong.

95Rollers

Coupon-mad said:

Delivery is not parking.

Can be, though, if you walk off site.  

You or I would never drive into a private car park to deliver something!  Double yellows are there for that purpose. Frustrates me that people are wrongly taught that double yellows are like double reds.  Wrong.

I guess the lines of defence would be questioning the unreasonable predatory behaviour. Which is giving him oral permission to use the bay - without specifying any conditions - then sneakily doing his legs the minute he crosses the street thus breaking these unknown conditions instead of calling him back or telling him of the rules to mitigate the risk.
The argument of proportionality doesn't really resonate with PPCs as it would of been pretty obvious a delivery van with a driver getting out with a package wouldn't be staying for long.
Plus there is the potential issue of poor/ hidden signage. Do grace periods apply - is it a BPA or IPC company? We'd really need to see the position of the signs/ entrance and then the text in full to get more of a rough idea how to fight it.

95Rollers

EDITED!
Basically undercover ticketman gave @Deleted_User  oral permission to use the bay with a "Go Ahead" when he proactively asked if he could use it.  Ticketman failed and deliberately didn't specify any terms or conditions or direct him to a sign with them on.  He then sneakily did his legs the minute  Jackson crossed the road thus inciting him into breaking these unknown conditions instead - because there was no effort or attempt of calling him back or telling him of the rules.

He has failed to mitigate the risk of a loss - which suggests its more about financially punishing someone and harvesting data to make money than opposed to managing the parking bays for the rent paying residents!  What an incompetent and awful parking solution!

 If Jackson wasn't delivering and was visiting someone or leaving his van there for a long period then that would mean a resident is without a bay after a hard day at work! Which is why the building has "parking management" - something that Sneaky Ticketman could have prevented to protect the resident's interests and no doubt goes against the principles of PoFA! 

You could compare this to a Policeman watching a staggering drunk stumbled towards a car with a key in his hand and let him get in and drive because - instead of stopping him, taking his keys and seeing him home - because he wants the arrest (but drink driver could crash into a car, run someone over, hurt himself or speed away) therefore the Policeman would have failed to perform his duty and prevent crime, damage to property and harm to others.  Obviously that is way more serious - but as a low-level parking attendant it forms the same principle - failing to perform his duty for a greater gain to himself. He has neglected his duty and failing their client by putting their wants first!

He deliberately made no attempt to curtail or prevent because he wanted Jackson to park there (and deliberately mislead him and omitted information in order to make a gain for himself/ his company (thus causing a loss to Jackson and a resident who cannot use their bay).  Therefore he is deliberately failing to perform his duties of parking management at the expense of the quality of life of others!  I would also raise this with the building management.  His actions/ the companies are deceptive so I'd also report to scam to:

https://www.actionfraud.police.uk

and Trading Standards.

[Deleted User]

nicestrawb said:

Where was this???

Romford Fruitcake said:

Assuming this happened on private not public or council land, what is the name of the parking company (it will have been on the signs), and was a NTD left on the windscreen?

I suggest you revisit on foot and take photos of the site and signage in case The Keeper gets a love letter from a PPC in the post.

If that happens, then follow the advice in the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES beginning with a complaint to the landowner and then an appeal using the template in blue text if a cancellation is not forthcoming.

Send the appeal template unaltered from The Keeper, ensuring the driver's identity is not revealed.

Note that stopping and delivering is not parking as determined in the Jopson vs Homeguard case heard in the appeal court.

CPM - Nothing on the windscreen but a letter came through the post. 

Coupon-mad

Which CPM please, full name?