Safest way to withdraw large sum of cash in respect of AML precautions

BooJewels

@Mvpharos - I'm not entirely sure what the risk is either, or quite where it lies (hence I asked the question), but you've perhaps seen the horror expressed here at what I've done, so clearly it's some sort of issue.  I've read a bit about the red flags for AML and this doesn't really qualify - one criteria of which is short time frames between paying in and moving on/withdrawing or lots of small, round numbered transactions.  There's been no movement on this account since August 2019.  Which would make it quite a long game.

I have however just spoken to the bank and they can raise a couple of banker's drafts at the counter, as long as I have ID.  I don't need to order them in advance or anything.  They don't however show the name they were drawn on in my statement, just their number, but they can be drawn directly on the savings account itself - it's one of the ways you can withdraw from the account.

Sea_Shell

"they can be drawn directly on the savings account itself - it's one of the ways you can withdraw from the account."

That sounds like the best plan.

Take copies (photos) of them before posting or handing them over.

BooJewels

@Sea_Shell - yes, indeed I will and will also note their numbers on the receipt document I want her to sign too.  I want to try and create an indisputable trail.  I know the new executor of her will and main beneficiary and one sniff that there might be additional funds elsewhere will make him quite motivated and unreasonable.

I'm now much happier with this arrangement, for a multitude of reasons.  She won't like it one bit though, but I'm afraid it's non-negotiable.

Ergates

General_Grant said:

Daliah said:

BooJewels said:

General_Grant said:

Who was paying the tax on the interest?

That is only relevant if either you or the relative would exceed personal savings allowance.

The interest last year was £1.32, so I haven't troubled HMRC with it.

BooJewels said:

(it is a bit more than the 10k € limit) 

£1.32 for over 10K Euros (not sure why we are talking Euros)? Are you sure that's all? Was the money kept in the relative's best interest (no pun intended)? Mind you, she shouldn't have an issue with interest if she is happy to keep her money under the mattress.

It's all a bit messy, as the money should never have gone into an account in your / your husband's name. But you are where you are.

Perhaps the question could have been:  Would the bank have reported the interest to HMRC as being to your account or that of the relative?  I'm suggesting that if you said the money was actually someone else's they should have noted the beneficial owner and reported accordingly to HMRC.

HMRC apply (or, at least, used to) a deminimus limit to savings interest amounts supplied by banks.   £1.32 would be below that limit.

Ergates

BooJewels said:

@Sea_Shell - yes, indeed I will and will also note their numbers on the receipt document I want her to sign too.  I want to try and create an indisputable trail.  I know the new executor of her will and main beneficiary and one sniff that there might be additional funds elsewhere will make him quite motivated and unreasonable.

I'm now much happier with this arrangement, for a multitude of reasons.  She won't like it one bit though, but I'm afraid it's non-negotiable.

I'd definitely agree with using a cheque.   Mainly because it's safer for you - gives you an audit trail and proof the money has been handed over.

If she complains about not getting cash, just tell her you don't trust her not to "forget" you've handed it over.

BooJewels

Thanks @IanManc and @Ergates I think I'm reasonably comfortable with the arrangement I've come up with now.  I actually think that she will sign for receipt of it, I don't think things have deteriorated so far and my son will be with me and whilst I'm certainly out of favour just now - as I'm not blood - he definitely isn't and he's very charming and persuasive and will get it done, even if I can't.

There are a multitude of good arguments as to why this is safer, if only the security of two mature ladies handling cash.

The new executor is not local in any way and that would really make things very much worse indeed. 

At the moment, I'm the only active Attorney, my late husband was the other (yes, 'jointly and severally', I checked with the OPG).  She has supposedly revoked me and set up a new one - but new ones are taking around 20 weeks and it has only been 12 and I haven't had it confirmed by the OPG yet - so I'm assuming that I'm still active until someone tells me otherwise.  That's another argument right there, that under the terms of the LPA, I'm obligated to act in her best interests, so protecting her and doing things properly comes under that remit.

born_again

AML won't affect you taking it out. Although they may ask exactly why you want cash. Which is a easy explanation, although they may be (read should be) worried she is being coerced into wanting cash so there is no trace to give to a 3rd party.

Bigger issue is why does she want cash, as it sounds like she wants to once again hide the money from other family members. Which could mean any idea of giving cheques will not work.

As LPA at the moment I would wait till the new one is in place & advise them that you will only pay via a bank transfer. As you need to fully protect yourself with a proper trace on the funds transfer.

BooJewels

@born_again - there are issues with your suggestions too - the new Attorney is the person she earlier had concerns about - so waiting may be potentially more problematic.  It's pretty much a no win situation. 

Having said that, I am also not fully sure that a new LPA has actually been organised.  I have a feeling that I may have been revoked without a new one being done.  Which strikes me as foolhardy and I seriously hope that I'm wrong, but that has to be her decision.  My son and and I have spent some time explaining how it can be advantageous, with real world examples of how I've been able to help other family members, using theirs, but I really think that she just doesn't get it, can't see the value in it and was probably quite happy to be presented with an opportunity to be rid of it.

On-the-coast

I wouldn’t worry about the LPA. 

If she has mental capacity then the LPA applies no obligations to you. 

Furthermore she is entitled to revoke it (as you know) - but so are you, so maybe consider that if it troubles you. 

As for the rest of - very best wishes to you, and your family in this situation. 

BooJewels

@On-the-coast - thanks for the good wishes, appreciated.  Someone else pointed out that I can disclaim myself with an LPA - I hadn't known that until recently.  I've made a mental note that once 20 or so weeks has passed in February, that if I haven't heard from the OPG, that I'll re-address the matter with the Donor and possibly do it myself.

It's not the mental capacity aspect that troubles me, as that only truly applies to the Health and Welfare one - but with the Finance one, I can potentially act at any time - and it has been my experience that it's accidents and physical ill-health that require you to step up to deal with matters when the donor is suddenly unable.  I've just done that with my own aunt who had a fall and shattered her hip and I was able to pay bills and do things for her whilst in hospital.  In that case we'd already registered the LPA with her bank in anticipation of need.  It worked really well.

I don't really want to encounter a situation where she needs help and I'm the only one that can actually provide it.  I think she'd probably prefer that to being left in a pickle, but it won't sit well with other family members and I could well do without the resulting conflict.  I won't leave her with difficulties, but I'd be happier if the baton were passed elsewhere.