Safest way to withdraw large sum of cash in respect of AML precautions

General_Grant

Who was paying the tax on the interest?

That is only relevant if either you or the relative would exceed personal savings allowance.

BooJewels

xylophone said:

I'm not sure how I could possibly have any 'evidence' that a bank employee did anything specific of that nature.

You said

We paid the initial amount of cash in at that appointment and asked for a note to be put on the account that it wasn't our money and we were holding it in trust for this family member and we would be adding to it over time and we showed them the LPA documents - 

I asked what evidence you had of the above.

With regard to the LPA, a relative held this for his relative and was able to open accounts in her sole name but with him as Attorney - in this way there was no doubt about who owned the money or about his authority to administer the account on the relative's behalf.

One of us is confused.  We asked the bank representative to make a note, she did some typing and clicking, counted the notes, did some more clicking and the printer spat out a receipt.  Not sure that qualifies as 'evidence'.  So I would suggest that I don't have any actual 'evidence'.  I wasn't expecting to need any.

When it was evident that my status had changed, I suggested that she revoke me as an Attorney, so that's not a path I can consider. It appears to still be in place as yet, but I'm progressing under the assumption that if it isn't already revoked, it soon will [should] be.  I'm not entirely sure that it has been done properly though.  I have done it (set up accounts, that is) with others in the past - but it wouldn't now help the current situation though.  In retrospect, it might have been a better method at the time, but that would have been problematic in itself.

BooJewels

General_Grant said:

Who was paying the tax on the interest?

That is only relevant if either you or the relative would exceed personal savings allowance.

The interest last year was £1.32, so I haven't troubled HMRC with it.

Daliah

BooJewels said:

General_Grant said:

Who was paying the tax on the interest?

That is only relevant if either you or the relative would exceed personal savings allowance.

The interest last year was £1.32, so I haven't troubled HMRC with it.

BooJewels said:

(it is a bit more than the 10k € limit) 

£1.32 for over 10K Euros (not sure why we are talking Euros)? Are you sure that's all? Was the money kept in the relative's best interest (no pun intended)? Mind you, she shouldn't have an issue with interest if she is happy to keep her money under the mattress.

It's all a bit messy, as the money should never have gone into an account in your / your husband's name. But you are where you are.

BooJewels

@Daliah - talking Euros as 10k € is the AML cash limit - about £8,500. 

Yes, I'm sure; £1.32 interest.  It had been more the year before, but interest rates plummeted.  She wasn't interested in it making any money, she just didn't want another family member stealing it.

Thanks for pointing out what a mess it is, you already called me shady - I get it!  I really I do, you don't need to keep rubbing it in.   But my husband's dead and I'm trying to sort out this mess with a woman who hates me because I didn't manage to keep him alive!  

Daliah

Just to clarify, I didn't call you shady, I just said there's a possibility of you getting accused of being part of a shady money laundering scheme. Not be me, but by people who might investigate the money.

Daliah said:

She can want - you are in charge. By giving her a cheque, you have discharged your responsibility, and removed further possibilities of getting accused of being part of a shady money laundering scheme. Although you are already implicated by handling a large cash sum when you agreed to "rescue" her money in the first instance.

EssexHebridean

Firstly OP, I’m so sorry you are having to deal with this sort of fallout so soon after your husband’s death - it must be the very last thing you need while still trying to deal with that grief. 

I think you have the best answer here already - the bank cheque. Personally if handing it over in person I would try to make sure that there is some clear evidence of that happening - perhaps get a trusted friend to video the handover of it to the family member on the doorstep - that way no other members of the family later try to claim that you didn’t return the funds, should the cheque never get presented. 

You’ve tried to do exactly what seemed the best thing for the person concerned - and by returning the funds in the above way you continue to, as you aren’t directly putting them in an  incredibly vulnerable position - should they choose to put themselves that position later, that is their call. 

General_Grant

Daliah said:

BooJewels said:

General_Grant said:

Who was paying the tax on the interest?

That is only relevant if either you or the relative would exceed personal savings allowance.

The interest last year was £1.32, so I haven't troubled HMRC with it.

BooJewels said:

(it is a bit more than the 10k € limit) 

£1.32 for over 10K Euros (not sure why we are talking Euros)? Are you sure that's all? Was the money kept in the relative's best interest (no pun intended)? Mind you, she shouldn't have an issue with interest if she is happy to keep her money under the mattress.

It's all a bit messy, as the money should never have gone into an account in your / your husband's name. But you are where you are.

Perhaps the question could have been:  Would the bank have reported the interest to HMRC as being to your account or that of the relative?  I'm suggesting that if you said the money was actually someone else's they should have noted the beneficial owner and reported accordingly to HMRC.

BooJewels

@General_Grant - I really, really don't know or even care that much.  I suppose it would be reported as 'mine' - as I don't seemingly have any evidence that the funds in that account didn't belong to me and that it was properly noted.  We genuinely thought we were just helping out by stopping her keeping so much money in an ice cream tub - I didn't want it in my house either, so putting it into a savings account where it was safe and might earn a few quid too - seemed sensible at the time.  There had been a fire in the building a few days before all of this started, so that was how we discovered she even had it - she was worried about it going up in smoke.

My husband was getting over a stem cell transplant and undergoing a legal battle with his [about to be former] employers at the time, so we just naively went with an easy option to keep it safe.  The future implications - and the mess I might end up with - never even occurred to us at that time.  But it's very easy to be judgmental with hindsight and the world has changed since then.

@EssexHebridean - thank you.  I'm also dealing with both of my parents' estates too and just trying to clear their house which has now sold.  I've already written a draft letter to hand over with the remaining cash (it didn't all get paid in, due to lockdown), interest and bank cheques (will try and split it in 2, so she has some flexibility) that I'll ask her to sign as full and final repayment of all monies.  My son will come with me, he's a great arbiter and will smooth things over and said he'll take photos of her with the items, for future evidence.

Mvpharos

I'm possibly being a bit dense but I'm struggling to see why there would be AML implications of taking cash out. Isn't money laundering about getting illicit funds into the banking system whilst concealing the source? These funds are already in the banking system, you're looking to take them out. Your relative would be the one with the AML issues if she tried to deposit the cash I'd have thought.

Cheque seems cleaner regardless, and you could always say to your relative that you're not comfortable with carrying that amount of cash around in the street.