CEL - PCN to company name

Fruitcake

Send the standard, "Whilst I deny any debt I am seeking debt advice and therefore require you to put the case on hold for 30 days as per pre-action protocol for debt claims" letter to the claimant to start with.

I wouldn't tip them off about how you intend to defend at the moment.

Did the keeper/company ever send an SAR? That should always be done. The keeper's MP should be all over this and warning the MP where the alleged event took place that business is being lost because of the action of these unregulated private companies.

As for being able to take a company to court, it is assumed that for the purposes of a court claim, a business is a person.

[Deleted User]

Thanks @Fruitcake

It almost seems a shame not to defend it at this point, given there is so much brilliant info on this site to go back to them with!

I will respond as you have said. MP is on with it - although was hesitant as he said legal proceedings had begun, thanks to this group I went back to dispute that with him, landowner just said to contact CEL after a number of emails....I shall go back to them again this morning.
SAR was sent and they only sent pic of sign, and one of vehicle entering and exiting. I note from this group that they should have sent machine report from the day, which they didn't.

thank you

Fruitcake

You will get the chance to defend it in a months time. Expect a claim form from the CCBC to arrive around April Fools' Day.  

You won't get a PDT report because it will contain other people's personal data. You could ask for a redacted report, as well as asking them to check using their Fuzzy Logic to see if there are any VRMs that are close to that of the vehicle, but perhaps with a typo or few.

Just to clarify the point about a business being a person, thanks to KeithP for this contribution.


The Explanatory Notes to the Consumer Rights Act 2015 explain in paragraph 35 that:

A “person” is not just a natural person but can also include companies, charities and arms of government (and the reference to a “person” can also include more than one person). So where these types of body are acting for purposes relating to their trade, business, craft or profession, they are caught by the definition of trader.

A business has always been considered a "person".

Fruitcake

I forgot to ask, what was the reason for the PCN being issued in the first place? Was it non-payment, overstay, out of bay, incorrect VRM?

D_P_Dance

They want a reply within 30 days and a reason why the debt is not owed ...

The debt is not owed unless a judge has said it is

Coupon-mad

The Explanatory Notes to the Consumer Rights Act 2015 explain in paragraph 35 that:
A “person” is not just a natural person but can also include companies, charities and arms of government (and the reference to a “person” can also include more than one person). So where these types of body are acting for purposes relating to their trade, business, craft or profession, they are caught by the definition of trader.

But not caught by the definition of a consumer, unfortunately.

However, the driver may well have been a consumer that day - if they were not on company business.

Castle

Coupon-mad said:

The Explanatory Notes to the Consumer Rights Act 2015 explain in paragraph 35 that:
A “person” is not just a natural person but can also include companies, charities and arms of government (and the reference to a “person” can also include more than one person). So where these types of body are acting for purposes relating to their trade, business, craft or profession, they are caught by the definition of trader.

But not caught by the definition of a consumer, unfortunately.

However, the driver may well have been a consumer that day - if they were not on company business.

It's up to the PPC to prove that the driver was there on company business-section 2(4) of the CRA2015.

Coupon-mad

Agreed.

But the Defendant needs to know to say that, if the legal rep tries to say at the hearing that the Defendant company is not a consumer.

Depends if the driver was acting as a consumer (i.e not there for work on behalf of the company). Were they?

[Deleted User]

Hi there, sorry for slow reply, the driver parked there on the day to collect a sandwich from the shop on that row of shops. So as a consumer to the space. The driver saw no signs and had no awareness that they had left a council road and entered a private road. No signs at entrance, no ANPR signs etc.

I will act on behalf of the company if it goes to court, I have managed to get around 10 of these ridiculous tickets cancelled pre court stage before. I always consult this forum first though....legislation tends to change in between each one!

[Deleted User]

An update on this case - I note that almost a year after a letter saying please put my case on hold for 30 days.....I never heard from them again! Success I guess!!