Does this builder sound a bit dodgy, or am I being unkind?

edinburgher

We've been looking for a builder to extend our home.

Getting quotes has been hard work - builders are booked solid for months and we have quotes booked in for as far away as next March - with a lot of builders not having build slots until next summer (or later). After contacting trusted builders (i.e. completed work for friends or were recommended by multiple folk on local Facebook groups), I posted an ad on Rated People and another firm were able to visit a week later. They were nice enough, seemed knowledgeable in some areas, but some red flags in others. Grateful to know whether others would be worrying about this firm in light of the following points, or if we're just nightmare prospective clients...

Our concerns are as follows:

• Firm were able to quote the following week vs. multiple weeks just to get email replies and multiple months to get reputable local firms to quote. They also claim that they could start works in 3-4 weeks
  
• Individual who came out was insistent that all extensions in Scotland require planning permission, seemed to have no concept of permitted development
• Quote was good (beat our preferred builder at £91k vs £96k) There are exclusions to this (kitchen cost etc, but the same for both firms) BUT...
• Approach to quoting was literally just taking measurements and multiplying sq metres by ££££ - what if our spec was really high, or odd in some way? This was an outline quote (they would then send out a surveyor for full quote as required)
  
• They were quite disparaging of our architect (maybe this is a common thing), only gave plans (albeit rough plans) a cursory glance and made no real attempt to review these at all. They did take basic measurements of exterior walls of the house, loft height etc.
  
• When mentioning splitting the works and asked whether a price was with or without VAT, they stated "you don't need to pay VAT". This would seem to be a load of nonsense, queried this and was told "there were ways around this" and was asked whether I worked for the tax man! Company describes itself as a LLP and these works alone would take them past the VAT threshold. Also, when asked, stated that they employed the majority of their contractors (so not a sole trader)
• Firm doesn't appear to be registered with Companies House despite claiming to be a LLP
  
• Rated People claim to have checked the name, address and credit score of the firm, but they have no feedback on rated people. They have some feedback on bark.com, but I'm not familiar with this site
  
• Their website has no contact details, was created in 2021, but they claim to have been around for 3 years
• Their website uses a lot of stock photos and I can't check images of recently completed work to see whether they have been taken from elsewhere online as they are held in a "photo roll" sort of thing
• Some of the photos suggested very little site prep (for example, staircases being installed, but no sheeting over existing carpets and lumps of plaster everywhere, very messy gardens full of rubble etc.) There was also a comedy one with a bum crack in view (used twice)
  
• Their Facebook page has no contact details, no feedback, 1-2 badly taken photos, no interactions with users and yet apparently over 100 people like it. It was also created a few months ago
• They wanted a 30% deposit which would then "lock in" our quote. Not a hard sell, but the language seemed a bit like a scam warning off a radio advert I appreciate that the deposit/no deposit debate rages on an ongoing basis, but is 30% for the full cost of an extension at nearly £100k typical? It seems a lot of money to pay upfront (fully appreciate that a lot of firms do take some sort of deposit)

Does this just sound like a badly run or dodgy business, or am I being overly cynical? Feel free to be brutally honest, we don't want to be "those guys" when hiring contractors, but this one just smelled fishy to me and extension would be the second dearest "purchase" of our lives.

Teapot55

I’d be interested to know the method these contractors would want their customers to use to pay. For instance, if they’re able to take payments by debit card it’d be more reassuring. 

Ebe_Scrooge

It all sounds very dodgy to me.  No contact details on a website is always a red flag for any company.  And - it's an old chestnut, but very valid - any good tradesman will usually be booked up weeks if not months in advance.  If a builder has got no work on, there's usually a very good reason.

Just a few weeks ago, our neighbour was having their house painted, and the guys that were doing it have a really good reputation locally.  We decided we'd bite the bullet and get ours done - it's a big job, but really needs doing.  So we popped over and asked them if they could give us a quote - they said yes, but it'll be next spring before they can even come out for a quote.  Yep, they're good, but booked solid several months in advance.

MalMonroe

From what you have said, I have formed an opinion. And it is - run, run like the wind!

When you are looking for tradespeople, it has nothing to do with being kind or unkind. It's how they present themselves and their information. And from what you've said, this builder falls well below the standards I'd be expecting.

You obviously have doubts and you must be aware that if you ignore your own instincts you are going to be very sorry indeed. I'm no clairvoyant but if you do go with this firm, all I can see in your future is disappointment followed by aggression, grievances and court cases.

The amounts of money you mention are not small. But even if they were, I'd avoid this company. I'd advise not to cut corners just to save money (i.e. you say, "quote was good (beat our preferred builder at £91k vs £96k)". That doesn't mean a thing if the work is substandard. And it seems as if it will be, from what you say.

As you do have a lot of money to spend, in your position, I would really do some more research and don't try to rush things or panic because you haven't yet found a good builder. You are NOT being overly-cynical at all. You know that this builder isn't for you - and you also know that if you say 'yes', you're going to regret it.

You really don't need a bunch of strangers on this lovely forum to tell you that, as per this - and I quote - "this one just smelled fishy to me and extension would be the second dearest "purchase" of our lives"

edinburgher

Thanks folks.

@MalMonroe - you're right, think the fact I felt the need to write that down was all the answer we needed 👍

silverwhistle

Glad you've already come to that conclusion. In fact I think you did a very good job of summarising all the typical warning flags!

Last year I had some new block paving put in so I could charge my EV out front. The first guy to quote I just didn't like, the quote vague and didn't include an item for VAT. I went with an ever so slightly more expensive quote and had a good job done and an itemised invoice which I was able to pay by bank transfer.

comeandgo

I think you would pay your £30k and never see tradesmen or your money again.  Never, never pay such a large deposit.  For a project that large you need someone who can project manage and get payments made when progress has been valued and certified, maybe weekly, fortnightly or monthly so the contractor is getting paid quickly so has no need to request large deposits.

FaceHead

comeandgo said:

I think you would pay your £30k and never see tradesmen or your money again.  

Agree. And then without a valid company to chase or knowing the identity of the fraudster, there's nothing you can do. 

Doozergirl

If you don't really think what you have described as dodgy, what would you class as dodgy?! 

Happychops

Companies on Rated people/Checkatrade aren't worth bothering with. If they need to advertise on these sites something is wrong. Word of mouth/recommendations should keep any reputable builder in work. I have worked in the building trade for years and the worst of the lot are the ones that advertise on these sites. Definitely dont go with the builder who priced the job. Wait until a reputable recommended builder becomes available. Good luck.

Sofee3

Run a mile!! No one should need money up front. And as you say a lot of red flags there from his responses etc.