Does this builder sound a bit dodgy, or am I being unkind?

Risteard

Sofee3 said:

Run a mile!! No one should need money up front. And as you say a lot of red flags there from his responses etc. 

Deposits are perfectly standard, normal and above board. So I can't agree with the statement that "no-one should need money up front." That's overly simplistic, and therefore incorrect.

comeandgo

Risteard said:

Sofee3 said:

Run a mile!! No one should need money up front. And as you say a lot of red flags there from his responses etc. 

Deposits are perfectly standard, normal and above board. So I can't agree with the statement that "no-one should need money up front." That's overly simplistic, and therefore incorrect.

Sorry must disagree.  Non of the companies I have ever used have asked for deposits and non of the companies my friends or family use have requested deposits.  Companies that need deposits are not being run correctly.  They either have a cash flow problem or are pricing their jobs too cheaply.

blibbka

edinburgher said:

We've been looking for a builder to extend our home.

Getting quotes has been hard work - builders are booked solid for months and we have quotes booked in for as far away as next March - with a lot of builders not having build slots until next summer (or later). After contacting trusted builders (i.e. completed work for friends or were recommended by multiple folk on local Facebook groups), I posted an ad on Rated People and another firm were able to visit a week later. They were nice enough, seemed knowledgeable in some areas, but some red flags in others. Grateful to know whether others would be worrying about this firm in light of the following points, or if we're just nightmare prospective clients...

Our concerns are as follows:

• Firm were able to quote the following week vs. multiple weeks just to get email replies and multiple months to get reputable local firms to quote. They also claim that they could start works in 3-4 weeks
  
• Individual who came out was insistent that all extensions in Scotland require planning permission, seemed to have no concept of permitted development
• Quote was good (beat our preferred builder at £91k vs £96k) There are exclusions to this (kitchen cost etc, but the same for both firms) BUT...
• Approach to quoting was literally just taking measurements and multiplying sq metres by ££££ - what if our spec was really high, or odd in some way? This was an outline quote (they would then send out a surveyor for full quote as required)
  
• They were quite disparaging of our architect (maybe this is a common thing), only gave plans (albeit rough plans) a cursory glance and made no real attempt to review these at all. They did take basic measurements of exterior walls of the house, loft height etc.
  
• When mentioning splitting the works and asked whether a price was with or without VAT, they stated "you don't need to pay VAT". This would seem to be a load of nonsense, queried this and was told "there were ways around this" and was asked whether I worked for the tax man! Company describes itself as a LLP and these works alone would take them past the VAT threshold. Also, when asked, stated that they employed the majority of their contractors (so not a sole trader)
• Firm doesn't appear to be registered with Companies House despite claiming to be a LLP
  
• Rated People claim to have checked the name, address and credit score of the firm, but they have no feedback on rated people. They have some feedback on bark.com, but I'm not familiar with this site
  
• Their website has no contact details, was created in 2021, but they claim to have been around for 3 years
• Their website uses a lot of stock photos and I can't check images of recently completed work to see whether they have been taken from elsewhere online as they are held in a "photo roll" sort of thing
• Some of the photos suggested very little site prep (for example, staircases being installed, but no sheeting over existing carpets and lumps of plaster everywhere, very messy gardens full of rubble etc.) There was also a comedy one with a bum crack in view (used twice)
  
• Their Facebook page has no contact details, no feedback, 1-2 badly taken photos, no interactions with users and yet apparently over 100 people like it. It was also created a few months ago
• They wanted a 30% deposit which would then "lock in" our quote. Not a hard sell, but the language seemed a bit like a scam warning off a radio advert I appreciate that the deposit/no deposit debate rages on an ongoing basis, but is 30% for the full cost of an extension at nearly £100k typical? It seems a lot of money to pay upfront (fully appreciate that a lot of firms do take some sort of deposit)

Does this just sound like a badly run or dodgy business, or am I being overly cynical? Feel free to be brutally honest, we don't want to be "those guys" when hiring contractors, but this one just smelled fishy to me and extension would be the second dearest "purchase" of our lives.

Speaking with zero experience of getting extensions, I think I'd run for the hills. Quite a few red flags there - makes me feel like there's possibly a scam at work or the very least a deeply unprofessional attitude, which in itself would be enough to put me off engaging them in such a significant piece of work.

m0t

We recently had an extension completed and my thoughts from going through the same process of getting quotes are:

• It's only a red flag that they are almost immediately available if there isn't a good reason. Our builders were available within two weeks because another job they were on fell through because of planning issues. I could see this on their instagram and they restarted that job a month after ours finished.
• They may have done the quick quote because they didnt want to spend a lot of time quoting for something they weren't going to get. I had a quote like this and it put me off too. 
• Presumably if they are similar in price to other quotes that include vat then they are either more expensive or trying to pocket it themselves. Unless you are benefiting from not being charged vat I don't know why they think you'd help them out. 
• Builders never like architect plans. Architects don't get on with builders. Listen to the issues the builder raises with the plans and decide whether they are sensible ones or not.
• We didn't pay a deposit - invoices were paid weekly. Our builder said that any proper builder would be on at least 30 days credit with suppliers and no homeowner is going to stiff them on an invoice with half their house open to the elements

Frankly I'd give these guys a miss. 

Happychops

m0t said:

We recently had an extension completed and my thoughts from going through the same process of getting quotes are:

• It's only a red flag that they are almost immediately available if there isn't a good reason. Our builders were available within two weeks because another job they were on fell through because of planning issues. I could see this on their instagram and they restarted that job a month after ours finished.
• They may have done the quick quote because they didnt want to spend a lot of time quoting for something they weren't going to get. I had a quote like this and it put me off too. 
• Presumably if they are similar in price to other quotes that include vat then they are either more expensive or trying to pocket it themselves. Unless you are benefiting from not being charged vat I don't know why they think you'd help them out. 
• Builders never like architect plans. Architects don't get on with builders. Listen to the issues the builder raises with the plans and decide whether they are sensible ones or not.
• We didn't pay a deposit - invoices were paid weekly. Our builder said that any proper builder would be on at least 30 days credit with suppliers and no homeowner is going to stiff them on an invoice with half their house open to the elements

Frankly I'd give these guys a miss. 

That last bullet point is 100% spot on!

Risteard

comeandgo said:

Risteard said:

Sofee3 said:

Run a mile!! No one should need money up front. And as you say a lot of red flags there from his responses etc. 

Deposits are perfectly standard, normal and above board. So I can't agree with the statement that "no-one should need money up front." That's overly simplistic, and therefore incorrect.

Sorry must disagree.  Non of the companies I have ever used have asked for deposits and non of the companies my friends or family use have requested deposits.  Companies that need deposits are not being run correctly.  They either have a cash flow problem or are pricing their jobs too cheaply.

Nothing to do with cash-flow problems. The reality is that they need to pay their suppliers regardless of whether they are paid by the customer or not, and therefore a deposit is not unreasonable. Also they are setting aside time to complete the job and don't want someone changing their mind at little to no notice. Deposits are legitimate and normal. To claim otherwise simply isn't correct.

Roselondon_2

We had our extension done by a local company who has a reputation for over 35 years. They are definitely on the expensive side. How much more than others? I don't know. Because we decided not to go with cheap but risky choices for doing extension and hence only went for two quotes with two reputable companies (I was heavily pregnant and didn't want to deal with any stress of managing bad builders.). 

Quality: We would be living in this same house for at least another decade. Don't want the roof fall off in the middle of the night, like the other family's did (Fortunately, nobody was hurt even that's the corner where they usually would have left the buggy with their toddler child napping inside. And the extension was done right before the previous owner sold it. Obviously didn't care.)

Cost: There are a thousand things could happen beyond your expectation/control when big project like this is involved. A cheaper quote doesn't guarantee the final reasonable cost. Another family in my child's class had lost £30k because they paid upfront (don't know why) and their builder decided to declare bankruptcy after he transferred all money to under his wife's name. Limited company with limited liability. That family had to find a new builder to rescue them in the middle of a winter. 

Time: If the project gets delayed by a lengthy period, you'd lose more money in temporary housing and all other sorts of things, not even talking about the inconvenience. The builder can't be showing up 2 days at yours and then disappear for 2 weeks to take other jobs. They need to be willing to commit and they need to know what they are doing.

Suggest you check the builder's background carefully. I was told (not sure if true or not), in that industry, most of the companies don't last for more than 2-3 years. So be wary of whom you choose!