Stopping on zig-zags

caveat_emptor

Norman_Castle said:

caveat_emptor said:

Does anyone know the law concerning waiting in a queue of traffic on a zig-zag before a zebra crossing. I know it is il;legal to park on a zig-zag but what about waiting?
A number of local .motorists have recieved PCN while waiting in a queue for petrol.

I suspect most drivers would wait on the markings seeing it as unavoidable. Were they warned before being fined? Its possible they were but chose not to move.

No warning, this was done by camera. Just the PCN as in parking illegally.

Norman_Castle

caveat_emptor said:

Norman_Castle said:

caveat_emptor said:

Does anyone know the law concerning waiting in a queue of traffic on a zig-zag before a zebra crossing. I know it is il;legal to park on a zig-zag but what about waiting?
A number of local .motorists have recieved PCN while waiting in a queue for petrol.

I suspect most drivers would wait on the markings seeing it as unavoidable. Were they warned before being fined? Its possible they were but chose not to move.

No warning, this was done by camera. Just the PCN as in parking illegally.

So an automated system which cannot differentiate between parking and waiting. I'd appeal.

Car_54

Norman_Castle said:

caveat_emptor said:

Norman_Castle said:

caveat_emptor said:

Does anyone know the law concerning waiting in a queue of traffic on a zig-zag before a zebra crossing. I know it is il;legal to park on a zig-zag but what about waiting?
A number of local .motorists have recieved PCN while waiting in a queue for petrol.

I suspect most drivers would wait on the markings seeing it as unavoidable. Were they warned before being fined? Its possible they were but chose not to move.

No warning, this was done by camera. Just the PCN as in parking illegally.

So an automated system which cannot differentiate between parking and waiting. I'd appeal.

How do you know it was automated?

TooManyPoints

So an automated system which cannot differentiate between parking and waiting. I'd appeal.

I wouldn’t. The Zebra, Pelican and Puffin Pedestrian Crossings Regulations and General Directions 1997, s20(2), is quite clear:

(2) Except as provided in regulations 21 and 22 the driver of a vehicle shall not cause it or any part of it to stop in a controlled area. 

Those same regulations define the “controlled area” as being that covered by the zig-zag lines and they do not provide an exception for queuing up to get into a petrol station. It says nothing about “parking” and nothing about “waiting”. It simply says the driver must not cause his vehicle to stop. 

If the offence is enforced by the police it carries an endorsement and three points.

Norman_Castle

[Deleted User] said:

Norman_Castle said:

caveat_emptor said:

Norman_Castle said:

caveat_emptor said:

Does anyone know the law concerning waiting in a queue of traffic on a zig-zag before a zebra crossing. I know it is il;legal to park on a zig-zag but what about waiting?
A number of local .motorists have recieved PCN while waiting in a queue for petrol.

I suspect most drivers would wait on the markings seeing it as unavoidable. Were they warned before being fined? Its possible they were but chose not to move.

No warning, this was done by camera. Just the PCN as in parking illegally.

So an automated system which cannot differentiate between parking and waiting. I'd appeal.

How do you know it was automated?

I don't but I'd suspect it is. Why employ someone when a camera fixed to a computer can spot a vehicle stationary for x amount of time?

Money_Grabber13579

I’m confused. Are some people saying that in the image below, when the traffic lights turn red, you must stop your car at the end of the double yellow lines, than at the stop line for the traffic lights? If not, what is in the difference between stopping at traffic lights and queuing in stationary traffic?

https://images.app.goo.gl/mMqv6EDsmR9WVDxu6

Money_Grabber13579

TooManyPoints said:

So an automated system which cannot differentiate between parking and waiting. I'd appeal.

I wouldn’t. The Zebra, Pelican and Puffin Pedestrian Crossings Regulations and General Directions 1997, s20(2), is quite clear:

(2) Except as provided in regulations 21 and 22 the driver of a vehicle shall not cause it or any part of it to stop in a controlled area. 

Those same regulations define the “controlled area” as being that covered by the zig-zag lines and they do not provide an exception for queuing up to get into a petrol station. It says nothing about “parking” and nothing about “waiting”. It simply says the driver must not cause his vehicle to stop. 

If the offence is enforced by the police it carries an endorsement and three points.

Ok, I’ve had a look at the legislation. I agree that reg 20 is quite clear. But you’ve omitted to say anything about reg 21!

Reg 21 is an exception to the rule in reg 20 and says:

Regulation 20 does not prohibit the driver of a vehicle from stopping it in a controlled area—

(b)if the driver is prevented from proceeding by circumstances beyond his control

I think having a queue of traffic in front of you is a circumstance beyond the driver’s control…

TooManyPoints

I think having a queue of traffic in front of you is a circumstance beyond the driver’s control…

Queuing to enter a petrol station is not beyond the driver's control. If he wants to join the queue he should keep the zig-zags clear.

user1977

Money_Grabber13579 said:

TooManyPoints said:

So an automated system which cannot differentiate between parking and waiting. I'd appeal.

I wouldn’t. The Zebra, Pelican and Puffin Pedestrian Crossings Regulations and General Directions 1997, s20(2), is quite clear:

(2) Except as provided in regulations 21 and 22 the driver of a vehicle shall not cause it or any part of it to stop in a controlled area. 

Those same regulations define the “controlled area” as being that covered by the zig-zag lines and they do not provide an exception for queuing up to get into a petrol station. It says nothing about “parking” and nothing about “waiting”. It simply says the driver must not cause his vehicle to stop. 

If the offence is enforced by the police it carries an endorsement and three points.

Ok, I’ve had a look at the legislation. I agree that reg 20 is quite clear. But you’ve omitted to say anything about reg 21!

Reg 21 is an exception to the rule in reg 20 and says:

Regulation 20 does not prohibit the driver of a vehicle from stopping it in a controlled area—

(b)if the driver is prevented from proceeding by circumstances beyond his control

I think having a queue of traffic in front of you is a circumstance beyond the driver’s control…

It is in a normal traffic jam situation, but I presume we're talking about a queue just to enter the petrol station, with the rest of the traffic passing.