Stopping on zig-zags

Teapot55

Manxman_in_exile said:

neilmcl said:

sheramber said:

Why the need to drive   right up to the zebra crossing?

 By stopping before the zig zags it allows a pedestrians using the crossing a better view of any traffic overtaking the queue. Similaryl it allows an overtaking motorist a clearer view of anyone on the crossing.

It's prohibited to overtake within the controlled area of a zebra crossing.

I think sheramber was talking about driving past stationary vehicles queuing for petrol (those stationary vehicles not being on the crossing or its zig-zags) and not about overtaking moving vehicles on the crossing.

(Doesn't overtaking only apply to moving vehicles?  You can't overtake a stationary vehicle, can you?)

Any vehicle on pedestrian crossing zigzags obscures your view of a person who’s walking on the crossing. That’s why you mustn’t go past the other vehicle because you could so easily take the pedestrian out. 

user1977

Manxman_in_exile said:

neilmcl said:

sheramber said:

Why the need to drive   right up to the zebra crossing?

 By stopping before the zig zags it allows a pedestrians using the crossing a better view of any traffic overtaking the queue. Similaryl it allows an overtaking motorist a clearer view of anyone on the crossing.

It's prohibited to overtake within the controlled area of a zebra crossing.

(Doesn't overtaking only apply to moving vehicles?  You can't overtake a stationary vehicle, can you?)

That's clearly not the definition the Highway Code is using given it says "You MUST NOT overtake...the vehicle nearest the crossing which has stopped to give way to pedestrians."

caveat_emptor

Thanks for your replies, the PCNs were issued in Bromley Kent. on a Tfl route. I am not a lawyer hence the original post but to me the motorists were breaking the law but in this case there was an extenuating circumstance (the petrol shortage). Whether a court would take that view is anyone's guess

unforeseen

I don't think an action that compromises road safety would ever fly as an extenuating circumstance 

sevenhills

Norman_Castle said:

I don't, educating a driver who made a mistake is probably as effective as penalising them. 

When you read on this forum, about taking a speed awareness course, that could educate. Great if a police officer can do it at the scene of the offence, but it's not that simple, they should of course get a fine and be educated.

user1977

caveat_emptor said:

in this case there was an extenuating circumstance (the petrol shortage).

Why would the petrol shortage prevent the queue from leaving a gap for the zig-zags?

Norman_Castle

sevenhills said:

Norman_Castle said:

I don't, educating a driver who made a mistake is probably as effective as penalising them. 

When you read on this forum, about taking a speed awareness course, that could educate. Great if a police officer can do it at the scene of the offence, but it's not that simple, they should of course get a fine and be educated.

ebe scrooge appears to have been educated at the scene and presumably no longer parks on crossing markings.

Norman_Castle

caveat_emptor said:

Does anyone know the law concerning waiting in a queue of traffic on a zig-zag before a zebra crossing. I know it is il;legal to park on a zig-zag but what about waiting?
A number of local .motorists have recieved PCN while waiting in a queue for petrol.

I suspect most drivers would wait on the markings seeing it as unavoidable. Were they warned before being fined? Its possible they were but chose not to move.

Car_54

sheramber said:

neilmcl said:

sheramber said:

Why the need to drive   right up to the zebra crossing?

 By stopping before the zig zags it allows a pedestrians using the crossing a better view of any traffic overtaking the queue. Similaryl it allows an overtaking motorist a clearer view of anyone on the crossing.

It's prohibited to overtake within the controlled area of a zebra crossing.

In certain circumstances which do not include stopped, queuing traffic

5. Pedestrian crossings (191 to 199)

191
You MUST NOT park on a crossing or in the area covered by the zig-zag lines. You MUST NOT overtake the moving vehicle nearest the crossing or the vehicle nearest the crossing which has stopped to give way to pedestrians.
Laws ZPPPCRGD regs 18, 20 & 24, RTRA sect 25(5) & TSRGD regs 10, 27 & 28

This is an instance where the Highway Code is not strictly accurate. The law in question applies to MOTOR vehicles. You can overtake a pedal cyclist quite legally.

Car_54

Manxman_in_exile said:

neilmcl said:

sheramber said:

Why the need to drive   right up to the zebra crossing?

 By stopping before the zig zags it allows a pedestrians using the crossing a better view of any traffic overtaking the queue. Similaryl it allows an overtaking motorist a clearer view of anyone on the crossing.

It's prohibited to overtake within the controlled area of a zebra crossing.

I think sheramber was talking about driving past stationary vehicles queuing for petrol (those stationary vehicles not being on the crossing or its zig-zags) and not about overtaking moving vehicles on the crossing.

(Doesn't overtaking only apply to moving vehicles?  You can't overtake a stationary vehicle, can you?)

No, and yes.

Anyway, the regulation doesn't use the term "overtaking", except in a section heading. The words used are "to pass ahead of the foremost part of a vehicle", whether stationary or proceeding in the same direction.