Stopping on zig-zags

neilmcl

sheramber said:

Why the need to drive   right up to the zebra crossing?

 By stopping before the zig zags it allows a pedestrians using the crossing a better view of any traffic overtaking the queue. Similaryl it allows an overtaking motorist a clearer view of anyone on the crossing.

It's prohibited to overtake within the controlled area of a zebra crossing.

neilmcl

I imagine the reason PCNs were handed out was for drivers causing an obstruction rather than being stopped on the zig zags of the crossing.

Car_54

neilmcl said:

[Deleted User] said:

The regulations say "The driver of a vehicle shall not cause the vehicle or any part of it to stop within the limits of a crossing unless he is prevented from proceeding by circumstances beyond his control or it is necessary for him to stop to avoid injury or damage to persons or property." [The Zebra Pelican etc. Regs 1997, section 18}
I think it very unlikely that a court would regard queuing for petrol as beyond the driver's control.

That relates to actually stopping on the crossing itself, rather than the preceding zig zag lines.

You're right. But Section 20 has the same prohibition relating to the "controlled area" of the crossing, i.e. bounded by the zig-zags.

neilmcl

[Deleted User] said:

neilmcl said:

[Deleted User] said:

The regulations say "The driver of a vehicle shall not cause the vehicle or any part of it to stop within the limits of a crossing unless he is prevented from proceeding by circumstances beyond his control or it is necessary for him to stop to avoid injury or damage to persons or property." [The Zebra Pelican etc. Regs 1997, section 18}
I think it very unlikely that a court would regard queuing for petrol as beyond the driver's control.

That relates to actually stopping on the crossing itself, rather than the preceding zig zag lines.

You're right. But Section 20 has the same prohibition relating to the "controlled area" of the crossing, i.e. bounded by the zig-zags.

"Except as provided in regulations 21 and 22".

sheramber

neilmcl said:

sheramber said:

Why the need to drive   right up to the zebra crossing?

 By stopping before the zig zags it allows a pedestrians using the crossing a better view of any traffic overtaking the queue. Similaryl it allows an overtaking motorist a clearer view of anyone on the crossing.

It's prohibited to overtake within the controlled area of a zebra crossing.

In certain circumstances which do not include stopped, queuing traffic

5. Pedestrian crossings (191 to 199)

191
You MUST NOT park on a crossing or in the area covered by the zig-zag lines. You MUST NOT overtake the moving vehicle nearest the crossing or the vehicle nearest the crossing which has stopped to give way to pedestrians.
Laws ZPPPCRGD regs 18, 20 & 24, RTRA sect 25(5) & TSRGD regs 10, 27 & 28

sevenhills

Ebe_Scrooge said:

To be fair to the guy, he didn't give me a ticket, just a stern talking-to.  But it just illustrates that zig-zags definitely do seem to be enforced pretty strictly.

It wasn't enforced though, I think that is poor policing.

Manxman_in_exile

neilmcl said:

sheramber said:

Why the need to drive   right up to the zebra crossing?

 By stopping before the zig zags it allows a pedestrians using the crossing a better view of any traffic overtaking the queue. Similaryl it allows an overtaking motorist a clearer view of anyone on the crossing.

It's prohibited to overtake within the controlled area of a zebra crossing.

I think sheramber was talking about driving past stationary vehicles queuing for petrol (those stationary vehicles not being on the crossing or its zig-zags) and not about overtaking moving vehicles on the crossing.

(Doesn't overtaking only apply to moving vehicles?  You can't overtake a stationary vehicle, can you?)

Aretnap

[Deleted User] said:

TadleyBaggie said:

Is it really a PCN? Who issued it?

AFAIK (but I could be out of date) pedestrian crossing offences have not been de-criminalised. So if they received any punishment it would have been at least a fixed penalty of £100 and three points.

Parking on a zig zag is unusual (AFAIK unique) in that it can be dealt with either as a decriminalised parking contravention, or as an endorseable criminal offence. Which sort of ticket you get depends on whether it's a CEO or a police officer who catches you. In the event that you get both, the police ticket trumps the council one.

Norman_Castle

sevenhills said:

Ebe_Scrooge said:

To be fair to the guy, he didn't give me a ticket, just a stern talking-to.  But it just illustrates that zig-zags definitely do seem to be enforced pretty strictly.

It wasn't enforced though, I think that is poor policing.

I don't, educating a driver who made a mistake is probably as effective as penalising them. 

ontheroad1970

Norman_Castle said:

sevenhills said:

Ebe_Scrooge said:

To be fair to the guy, he didn't give me a ticket, just a stern talking-to.  But it just illustrates that zig-zags definitely do seem to be enforced pretty strictly.

It wasn't enforced though, I think that is poor policing.

I don't, educating a driver who made a mistake is probably as effective as penalising them. 

Indeed.  It's like with automatic speed enforcement.  It can lead to a mentality of driving to the availability of speed cameras and not to the safe speed for the road within the speed limit.  Sure if you don't want to get fined, don't speed, but several people I know will treat a road with speed cameras differently to one without.