Falsified EPCs created by an Assessor - urgency to do something...

Section62

fewcloudy said:

adviseforumthanks said:

adviseforumthanks said:
Maybe I should just ask them to get the assessor back in (to mark his own homework) as will be quicker? These EPC seem more and more critical to housing transactions (2025 you need a "C" rating to rent), surely if they are suspect they should be voided pending a review - or the old ones relodged, or something, not do nothing whilst investigating?

Also was wondering if this is actually good for the Landlord? If the EPC is found to be incorrect, and tenants are put into situ, does that create long term issues? E.g. if deposits are not registered with TDS future Section 21 notices can be invalidated - is this the same with dodgy or voided EPC's - could it invalidate landlord notices or create any other issues? 

You may not mean to, but you actually sound quite desperate for ill-fortune of some type or another to befall the owner/landlord of this property, that you have no apparent interest/involvement in (apart from thinking that they’d make “a nice family home” rather than presumably being rented out to a nice family, to be their home?

The OP has asked a good question, and one which might affect other landlords using this forum if they have the misfortune to get an EPC done by a surveyor who isn't up to the task.

I'd be interested in hearing views from any of the people knowledgeable in rental law, but I suspect if the landlord was an innocent party and the EPC was valid at the point in time the tenancy agreement was signed, then it being subsequently found to be erroneous wouldn't necessarily void the tenancy, nor put the landlord in hot water.  If it did, then presumably/hopefully the surveyor's PI could be called on?


What I don't get is why some people (with no apparent interest/involvement in the situation) are still so focused on the OP's motivations, rather than sticking to discussing the issues?

jonesey1985

Section62 said:

fewcloudy said:

adviseforumthanks said:

adviseforumthanks said:
Maybe I should just ask them to get the assessor back in (to mark his own homework) as will be quicker? These EPC seem more and more critical to housing transactions (2025 you need a "C" rating to rent), surely if they are suspect they should be voided pending a review - or the old ones relodged, or something, not do nothing whilst investigating?

Also was wondering if this is actually good for the Landlord? If the EPC is found to be incorrect, and tenants are put into situ, does that create long term issues? E.g. if deposits are not registered with TDS future Section 21 notices can be invalidated - is this the same with dodgy or voided EPC's - could it invalidate landlord notices or create any other issues? 

You may not mean to, but you actually sound quite desperate for ill-fortune of some type or another to befall the owner/landlord of this property, that you have no apparent interest/involvement in (apart from thinking that they’d make “a nice family home” rather than presumably being rented out to a nice family, to be their home?

The OP has asked a good question, and one which might affect other landlords using this forum if they have the misfortune to get an EPC done by a surveyor who isn't up to the task.

I'd be interested in hearing views from any of the people knowledgeable in rental law, but I suspect if the landlord was an innocent party and the EPC was valid at the point in time the tenancy agreement was signed, then it being subsequently found to be erroneous wouldn't necessarily void the tenancy, nor put the landlord in hot water.  If it did, then presumably/hopefully the surveyor's PI could be called on?


What I don't get is why some people (with no apparent interest/involvement in the situation) are still so focused on the OP's motivations, rather than sticking to discussing the issues?

Perhaps because some people don't want to be used as tools to get the landlord relieved of his property.

Section62

jonesey1985 said:

Section62 said:

fewcloudy said:

adviseforumthanks said:

adviseforumthanks said:
Maybe I should just ask them to get the assessor back in (to mark his own homework) as will be quicker? These EPC seem more and more critical to housing transactions (2025 you need a "C" rating to rent), surely if they are suspect they should be voided pending a review - or the old ones relodged, or something, not do nothing whilst investigating?

Also was wondering if this is actually good for the Landlord? If the EPC is found to be incorrect, and tenants are put into situ, does that create long term issues? E.g. if deposits are not registered with TDS future Section 21 notices can be invalidated - is this the same with dodgy or voided EPC's - could it invalidate landlord notices or create any other issues? 

You may not mean to, but you actually sound quite desperate for ill-fortune of some type or another to befall the owner/landlord of this property, that you have no apparent interest/involvement in (apart from thinking that they’d make “a nice family home” rather than presumably being rented out to a nice family, to be their home?

The OP has asked a good question, and one which might affect other landlords using this forum if they have the misfortune to get an EPC done by a surveyor who isn't up to the task.

I'd be interested in hearing views from any of the people knowledgeable in rental law, but I suspect if the landlord was an innocent party and the EPC was valid at the point in time the tenancy agreement was signed, then it being subsequently found to be erroneous wouldn't necessarily void the tenancy, nor put the landlord in hot water.  If it did, then presumably/hopefully the surveyor's PI could be called on?


What I don't get is why some people (with no apparent interest/involvement in the situation) are still so focused on the OP's motivations, rather than sticking to discussing the issues?

Perhaps because some people don't want to be used as tools to get the landlord relieved of his property.

How would ^that^ work?  It would still be the landlord's property?

In any event, if people don't comment on the thread they can't be used in that way.

fewcloudy

Section62 said:

What I don't get is why some people (with no apparent interest/involvement in the situation) are still so focused on the OP's motivations, rather than sticking to discussing the issues?

Yeah so you’ve said already several times.

Section62

fewcloudy said:

Section62 said:

What I don't get is why some people (with no apparent interest/involvement in the situation) are still so focused on the OP's motivations, rather than sticking to discussing the issues?

Yeah so you’ve said already several times.

No answer though?

jonesey1985

Section62 said:

jonesey1985 said:

Section62 said:

fewcloudy said:

adviseforumthanks said:

adviseforumthanks said:
Maybe I should just ask them to get the assessor back in (to mark his own homework) as will be quicker? These EPC seem more and more critical to housing transactions (2025 you need a "C" rating to rent), surely if they are suspect they should be voided pending a review - or the old ones relodged, or something, not do nothing whilst investigating?

Also was wondering if this is actually good for the Landlord? If the EPC is found to be incorrect, and tenants are put into situ, does that create long term issues? E.g. if deposits are not registered with TDS future Section 21 notices can be invalidated - is this the same with dodgy or voided EPC's - could it invalidate landlord notices or create any other issues? 

You may not mean to, but you actually sound quite desperate for ill-fortune of some type or another to befall the owner/landlord of this property, that you have no apparent interest/involvement in (apart from thinking that they’d make “a nice family home” rather than presumably being rented out to a nice family, to be their home?

The OP has asked a good question, and one which might affect other landlords using this forum if they have the misfortune to get an EPC done by a surveyor who isn't up to the task.

I'd be interested in hearing views from any of the people knowledgeable in rental law, but I suspect if the landlord was an innocent party and the EPC was valid at the point in time the tenancy agreement was signed, then it being subsequently found to be erroneous wouldn't necessarily void the tenancy, nor put the landlord in hot water.  If it did, then presumably/hopefully the surveyor's PI could be called on?


What I don't get is why some people (with no apparent interest/involvement in the situation) are still so focused on the OP's motivations, rather than sticking to discussing the issues?

Perhaps because some people don't want to be used as tools to get the landlord relieved of his property.

How would ^that^ work?  It would still be the landlord's property?

In any event, if people don't comment on the thread they can't be used in that way.

The landlord being forced to sell because he can't afford to bring it up to standard?

adviseforumthanks

Section62 said:

The OP has asked a good question, and one which might affect other landlords using this forum if they have the misfortune to get an EPC done by a surveyor who isn't up to the task.

I'd be interested in hearing views from any of the people knowledgeable in rental law, but I suspect if the landlord was an innocent party and the EPC was valid at the point in time the tenancy agreement was signed, then it being subsequently found to be erroneous wouldn't necessarily void the tenancy, nor put the landlord in hot water.  If it did, then presumably/hopefully the surveyor's PI could be called on?

What I don't get is why some people (with no apparent interest/involvement in the situation) are still so focused on the OP's motivations, rather than sticking to discussing the issues?

In this case, the timings around the two EPC assessments for different homes, by the same assessor seem more than coincidence. Perhaps word got around that a particular EPC assessor would reward his paymaster with a positive rating and was being used a lot.

For a landlord it would pay to find a "flexible" assesor, else you would be in a situation of engaging someone that stops you renting. Once a EPC is found to be suspect and reported, I was trying to understand if its in the landlords interest as well to sort out, as there may be ramifications to them as well further down the line. 

I guess most of the complaints are from assessor clients complaining about low grades, not someone complaining about high-grades. I assume that does not happen often, they don't get caught out if they are overly positive and hence the misbehaviour is rewarded.  

adviseforumthanks

if you google...

GUIDANCE ON PROPERTY SALES AND LETTINGS

Compliance with the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 and the Business Protection from Misleading Marketing Regulations 2008

September 2015 Reviewed August 2020

...you come across a PDF document which does seem to indicate that estate agents need to comply to the Consumer Protection (CPR) and Misleading Marketing Regulations (BPR) Acts 2008. Seems to state:

"Where your client or third parties provide you with information that you know is wrong, or have reason to believe may be wrong, you should follow up with questions, ask for documented proof and/or make your own enquiries in order to satisfy yourself what is correct."

...so if a false EPC is reported to the Estate agent, what is their consumer duty of care? Seems that there is requirement to investigate -  and thus are breeching the regs by continuing to advertise with little regard. If an experienced agent reviewed the EPCs they would come to the same conclusion that something is wrong.

jonesey1985

adviseforumthanks said:

if you google...

GUIDANCE ON PROPERTY SALES AND LETTINGS

Compliance with the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 and the Business Protection from Misleading Marketing Regulations 2008

September 2015 Reviewed August 2020

...you come across a PDF document which does seem to indicate that estate agents need to comply to the Consumer Protection (CPR) and Misleading Marketing Regulations (BPR) Acts 2008. Seems to state:

"Where your client or third parties provide you with information that you know is wrong, or have reason to believe may be wrong, you should follow up with questions, ask for documented proof and/or make your own enquiries in order to satisfy yourself what is correct."

...so if a false EPC is reported to the Estate agent, what is their consumer duty of care? Seems that there is requirement to investigate -  and thus are breeching the regs by continuing to advertise with little regard. If an experienced agent reviewed the EPCs they would come to the same conclusion that something is wrong.

Zero, because they don't know it's wrong.

TheJP

adviseforumthanks said:

if you google...

GUIDANCE ON PROPERTY SALES AND LETTINGS

Compliance with the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 and the Business Protection from Misleading Marketing Regulations 2008

September 2015 Reviewed August 2020

...you come across a PDF document which does seem to indicate that estate agents need to comply to the Consumer Protection (CPR) and Misleading Marketing Regulations (BPR) Acts 2008. Seems to state:

"Where your client or third parties provide you with information that you know is wrong, or have reason to believe may be wrong, you should follow up with questions, ask for documented proof and/or make your own enquiries in order to satisfy yourself what is correct."

...so if a false EPC is reported to the Estate agent, what is their consumer duty of care? Seems that there is requirement to investigate -  and thus are breeching the regs by continuing to advertise with little regard. If an experienced agent reviewed the EPCs they would come to the same conclusion that something is wrong.

You still haven't said what actual factual evidence you have apart from assumptions. You could be setting your self up for slander. All you have told us is that you know they haven't done anything but you do not know that for sure just as you don't know if the EPC is falsified and just as you don't know that the first assessor didn't get it wrong. So many things you don't know.