How do you plan to take care of your DH's mum in her old age?

Savvy_Sue

A few other thoughts have come to mind and I offer them randomly:

• As long as your MIL has 'capacity', she can make her own decisions about where she lives, what care she receives etc. 'Capacity' can be quite a technical term, and it doesn't mean 'capable of making sensible decisions'. So for example, she says she'd like to live in this particular bungalow or that particular bungalow, and no other bungalow will do - that's not necessarily a sensible decision, but she is perfectly entitled to make it for herself: she understands that if she doesn't look at any other bungalows, she won't be moving into one. 
  
  
• And then one or other of those bungalows actually comes onto the market, yet she does absolutely nothing about it. Again, that may not seem a sensible decision, but she's entitled to make it: she understands that if she doesn't look at any other bungalows, she won't be moving into one. 
  
  
• And then she may decide that there is a 3rd bungalow which is the only bungalow she could ever consider living in, and there's absolutely no point showing her any others, because they are not THAT bungalow - and yet, if it came on the market, she does nothing about it: she understands that if she doesn't look at any other bungalows, she won't be moving into one. 

• Now, bear in mind that you and your DH also have 'capacity' and have the right to make decisions for yourselves. So, MIL requires your DH to go to her house every other weekend to help with the garden, but there may come a point where he decides that this is no longer something he can do - and there may be all sorts of reasons for that: having children, having an accident, you not being well etc etc etc. You're responsible for your decisions, but you're not responsible for hers. Does she pay the gardener to do more, or does she let the garden go to rack and ruin?  The decision is hers: you may not agree with it, you may not think it's sensible, but she has capacity if she can understand that if she doesn't get the help she needs, the garden goes to rack and ruin. 
  
  
• And it may not be the garden: she may have an accident or fall ill, end up in hospital and the view may be that she needs help at home - getting up and dressed, getting undressed and going to bed, preparing meals, shopping etc. But no-one can force her to accept that help, and - this is important - you don't have to provide it just because she may expect it, want it, and say that this is what you should do. If she has capacity, she can refuse the help that's offered, and if that means she doesn't get any help at all, that's her decision, and one she is entitled to make. 

Sometimes, you just have to sit back and wait for the crisis to occur. I suspect your MIL is sitting back and waiting for your DH to provide what she sees as the perfect solution - moving in with you. Which means you have to buy a suitable house, you're probably expected to organise the sale of her current house, to persuade his siblings that using some of the proceeds of the sale of her current house to buy that larger house is the right solution (tip: it's probably NOT a good solution), to organise the actual move. You don't have to do any of that, but if that's what she chooses to do - wait for your DH to sort everything out - you may not be able to shift her thinking.

That's OK: get on with your own lives, find a property that works for you, suggest your DH adopts the cracked record technique. "Mum, we'd love for you to move nearer us, but you need to sell this house and find something suitable near us. Mum, we're planning to buy a house, but it won't be near you, and it won't have room for you. We'd love for you to move nearer us, but you need to sell this house and find something suitable near us. Mum, buying a house together will create all sorts of problems and we're not prepared to do that. We'd love for you to move nearer us, but you need to sell this house and find something suitable near us."

If it gets to a stage where she needs help, there will be options. She may not like them, she may refuse them, but that doesn't mean you or your DH have to do what she wants. 

Pollycat

strawberries1 said:

I recently found out that if she contributed to our purchase to help with the annex the house might need to be sold if the money was needed for her care. I explained to my hubby but he didn't think this was a problem. We've been house hunting for over a year but it's been impossible to find a house with annexe or annexe potential. So this is another issue as living in a one bed isn't conducive for us and our immediate plans to start a family.

Do you think this would be a problem?
In your position I certainly would think this might be a huge problem.
And that would lead me to think that perhaps my husband's deeply caring and dependable disposition is directed primarily towards the person who gave birth to him rather than the person he married.

strawberries1 said:

I've also brought up the real possibility that she'll want him with her often and how we'll have to be responsible for her entertainment and social life if she moves away from her village where she's lived six decades.

I don't think it's a real possibility.
I think it's a definite.

So when you brought this up, what was your husband's response?

He doesn't have to travel 100 miles every other week to help with the garden and veg patch. He chooses to do it.
Why can't she pay the gardener to come every week?

FTR, I was the eldest child and I never felt I was the person to do the caring for our Mum because of that.

Mojisola

MovingForwards said:

Why would you bring someone into your daily life and home, when it's clear you are not accepted by MIL as family and you won't be first place to your husband.

MIL's longterm plan may be to get the three of them in a house together and force the interloper (the OP) out so that she can live out her days with her darling son. 

Keep_pedalling

Mojisola said:

MovingForwards said:

Why would you bring someone into your daily life and home, when it's clear you are not accepted by MIL as family and you won't be first place to your husband.

MIL's longterm plan may be to get the three of them in a house together and force the interloper (the OP) out so that she can live out her days with her darling son. 

That is a very real risk, and it happened to some good friends of ours. The husband’s invalid mother moved in after his father died. After several years his wife moved into rented accommodation as she could not put up with the continuous put downs any more. She moved back in after mother died 18 months later.

I know my own mother would have loved to have move in with us, but it have driven both of us crazy if it had actually happened.

strawberries1

@Pollycat My DH is MIL's main carer and he intend to continue assuming that role. You're right; cos his mum and siblings create this vacuum he is then required to fill, if he now steps back it will be understandable but will still cause some disquiet. Regarding her expecting us to be responsible for her entertainment and social life, DH says she won't expect us to. She says the gardener doesn't cut the grass low enough and can't do her veg patch and she can do it herself but then she calls for DH to come round to do it.

@Gavin83 yes, DH and MIL say help will be bought in, but still I know and it is obvious that most of the responsibilities will fall on him. Trust me, I've discussed this with him several times. I shall try again. I suspect that cos at the back of my mind I would like to look after her but with adequate domestic staff which I know isn't possible here. So I am conflicted. I don't know anyone who's grown old in the Western world ie where labour is expensive and you don't have live in domestic staff and relatives popping in all the time. 

@MovingForwards she was reluctant but now accepts me as part of the family and also, I tend to encourage more family friendly habits.

@niallmitch thanks. We've had a couple of ivf cycles but we've not hit the jackpot yet.  

@Savvy_Sue the thing is, if she doesn't pay for a cleaner, gardener or bungalow it all falls on my DH. She complains about the gardener but to us not to the gardener so my DH has to go and remedy the work etc. For example, I've been hinting that she starts to seriously declutter cos I know it'll fall to us but she's still buying new pots, beds, bedding, carpet etc. My DH took extended leave from work to look after his dad, unfortunately, his dad died but he didn't return to work. This was just b4 we left. He's saved up and still gets income from investments but I'll like him to return to work. He said he will but he hasn't and this gives MIL the opportunity to commit him to her needs.  TBH I don't want her funds involved in our purchase as I really don't want any complications or to feel cheated as knowing my DH he'll let his siblings have their way for the sake of unity. I think the broken record route will have to be the way. It's difficult enough finding a house then adding an annexe or that it be "annexeable" is making it seem like we're looking for a needle in the haystack.

@Mojisola Oh my days! That'll be horrid! Apart from my family (cos of culture, which you'll understand going by your name ) DH and MIL no one has expressed they think it's a good idea for her to move in with us. Ps. She hasn't discussed moving in with us with the other siblings or any of her friends even her close friends in the village. I've also expressed that planning this in secret isn't great as DH's siblings and MIL's friends will feel excluded. DH's friends who he's told all ask if we're sure about this and some of the wives have said to me in private more explicitly that they don't think it's a good idea.

Pollycat

strawberries1 said:

@Pollycat My DH is MIL's main carer and he intend to continue assuming that role. You're right; cos his mum and siblings create this vacuum he is then required to fill, if he now steps back it will be understandable but will still cause some disquiet. Regarding her expecting us to be responsible for her entertainment and social life, DH says she won't expect us to. She says the gardener doesn't cut the grass low enough and can't do her veg patch and she can do it herself but then she calls for DH to come round to do it.

And your DH pops off 100 miles to do her bidding...
She has no intention of telling the gardener to do things how she wants them done.
She has no intention of doing it herself.
Why should she when she can rely on the golden child be at her beck and call.

strawberries1 said:

@Gavin83 yes, DH and MIL say help will be bought in, but still I know and it is obvious that most of the responsibilities will fall on him. Trust me, I've discussed this with him several times. I shall try again. I suspect that cos at the back of my mind I would like to look after her but with adequate domestic staff which I know isn't possible here. So I am conflicted. I don't know anyone who's grown old in the Western world ie where labour is expensive and you don't have live in domestic staff and relatives popping in all the time. 

Their carers - quite often a single family member - are exhausted and stressed.

strawberries1 said:

 
@Savvy_Sue the thing is, if she doesn't pay for a cleaner, gardener or bungalow it all falls on my DH. She complains about the gardener but to us not to the gardener so my DH has to go and remedy the work etc. For example, I've been hinting that she starts to seriously declutter cos I know it'll fall to us but she's still buying new pots, beds, bedding, carpet etc. My DH took extended leave from work to look after his dad, unfortunately, his dad died but he didn't return to work. This was just b4 we left. He's saved up and still gets income from investments but I'll like him to return to work. He said he will but he hasn't and this gives MIL the opportunity to commit him to her needs.  TBH I don't want her funds involved in our purchase as I really don't want any complications or to feel cheated as knowing my DH he'll let his siblings have their way for the sake of unity. I think the broken record route will have to be the way. It's difficult enough finding a house then adding an annexe or that it be "annexeable" is making it seem like we're looking for a needle in the haystack.

It only falls on your OH because he allows it to fall on him.
He does not need to remedy any work - he simply needs to tell her to instruct the gardener how she wants things doing.
Unless you have a lot of savings, IVF will suck your  money up.

How do your separate contributions to your household stand?
Are you the main earner because he doesn't work even though he has income from investments?
If that is the case, do you think that's fair?
Why would he need to go back to work?
Is he actively looking for work?
Or is he just fobbing you off?
Did you own your flat?
Does he own the flat you are living in?

Did he have the sort of job where his skills can become out-dated?
I know someone who earned a lot of money as an IT contractor.
When the contract market in his field declined, he sat back waiting for someone to knock on the door with another contract or permanent job.
18 months later, he realised he needed to do something. He took an agency basic admin job (and admittedly worked his way back up over the next 15 years but he would have been much higher in any organisation without that missing period).

What arrangements regarding child care have you discussed?
Is he going to provide it as he doesn't have a job?
Would you be happy with that situation?

You say you don't want her funds involved in your house purchase as you really don't want any complications or to feel cheated as knowing your DH he'll let his siblings have their way for the sake of unity. 
But he's already told you he doesn't see that as a problem.
What does that tell you?
It would tell me that my husband puts his Mother before me and always will.

strawberries1 said:

@Mojisola Oh my days! That'll be horrid! Apart from my family (cos of culture, which you'll understand going by your name ) DH and MIL no one has expressed they think it's a good idea for her to move in with us. Ps. She hasn't discussed moving in with us with the other siblings or any of her friends even her close friends in the village. I've also expressed that planning this in secret isn't great as DH's siblings and MIL's friends will feel excluded. DH's friends who he's told all ask if we're sure about this and some of the wives have said to me in private more explicitly that they don't think it's a good idea.

Listen to those people giving you very good advice.
People don't think it's a good idea because it isn't.
 

sheramber

If she moves in with you she will have no friends locally and will depend on you and your husband even more as she will lonely.

I have moved to be nearer my son and family. we lived 260 miles apart.  I have a house 10 minutes walk from them. I have them close at hand but we each have our own lives and out own front door. 

I lived with them for 3 months during lockdown - it happened when I was  on holiday with them- with no problems at all but living permanently would be a different project.

Mojisola

I looked after my parents for the last decade of their lives, starting with small things and then building up to me spending every night there and managing their finances, shopping, etc, and organising cleaners, carers, gardeners and whatever maintenance and repairs my OH and I couldn't do.

I am glad I was able to do it and they were very appreciative but it took a toll on me and I hope we can avoid any of our offspring having to do the same for us.

There is no way that I could have done it if the relationship between us (my husband and I) and my parents hadn't been loving and caring - as it was, the stress of caring for them took me several years after their deaths to recover from.  If I had been looking after someone who wasn't appreciative and aware of the effect caring for them was having on my life, it would have been too much - I would either have got seriously ill and/or it would have affected my relationship with my husband.

Fortunately, my parents were able to stay in the house that they had lived in for many years and the community that saw them the neighbourhood's grandparents - without the support of their friends and neighbours, again, I don't think I would have coped.  Moving away from people who know them well and look out for them is rarely a good idea for elderly people.

Pollycat

Mojisola said:

I looked after my parents for the last decade of their lives, starting with small things and then building up to me spending every night there and managing their finances, shopping, etc, and organising cleaners, carers, gardeners and whatever maintenance and repairs my OH and I couldn't do.

I am glad I was able to do it and they were very appreciative but it took a toll on me and I hope we can avoid any of our offspring having to do the same for us.

There is no way that I could have done it if the relationship between us (my husband and I) and my parents hadn't been loving and caring - as it was, the stress of caring for them took me several years after their deaths to recover from.  If I had been looking after someone who wasn't appreciative and aware of the effect caring for them was having on my life, it would have been too much - I would either have got seriously ill and/or it would have affected my relationship with my husband.

Fortunately, my parents were able to stay in the house that they had lived in for many years and the community that saw them the neighbourhood's grandparents - without the support of their friends and neighbours, again, I don't think I would have coped.  Moving away from people who know them well and look out for them is rarely a good idea for elderly people.

My sister was Mum's carer until it became clear that she needed much more than she could give.
I'm talking dementia and increasing frailty.

Mojisola
How old were your children when you took this on?
The OP is talking about starting a family.

Mojisola

Pollycat said:

Mojisola
How old were your children when you took this on?
The OP is talking about starting a family.

It would have been impossible if our children had been young - there's no doubt about that.

I would also be concerned that, with a MIL as described living in the same house or very close by, there could be constant criticisms of the way the children were brought up - especially if the comments took the form of "Well, in this country, we don't do things that way".

I think strawberries' husband has to decide which person in his life is his main priority - if he doesn't chose his wife (and any children that come along), then the strain on the relationship could become unbearable.